A topic that seems to come here a fair bit

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djdante

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I know that a lot of threads have been started about abdominal training, but there seems to be a lot of different views on how to build up abdominal muscles.

I have a lot of trouble getting a six-pack dispite much effort

I have always taken to the view that abs are like any other muscle group, and to get them big, you need to do high intensity low reps. When it comes to abs, what sort of reps are people really doing? I train an hour of abs every week (as I do every other muscle group), as well as 2 days a week of HIIT training and one day a 5 mile jog.

On any typical abdominal ab workout day, I will do around 15x3 leg lowerings on a declined surface, 20x3 leg raises, 15-10-8 on an ab-curl machine, 10x3 standard situps, then I will use a yoga ball and keep my body like a stiff plank leaning on the ball (don't know the name of this particular exersize) for 3x1min. Lastly, I will do lower back extensions. (I don't do any oblique exersizes as I have been led to beleive they are not really necessary for six-pack)

My abs are getting harder, and you can see that there is more muscle showing, but it is not nearly what you would call a six-pack. My body fat is what I would consider to be low enough at 13.8% TOTAL body fat (electrode metering) or 5.9% pinch test.

Does anyone have any solid experience in this area? I know some people have no trouble at all getting a solid six-pack, but I knowk others have worked long and hard at getting theirs visible. Is there perhaps something that I am doing wrongly?
 
Mine is coming up quite nicely without any deliberate abs work, except maybe a few crunches twice a week.

I used to be quite obsessive about them and do as many sit-ups as i could possibly do, but my view now is that if you have a sensible workout with the use of free weights, your abs get plenty of work from that without having to isolate them.

I think the general concensus on this is that a clean diet is the most important thing.
 
i have an "8ish" pack and visible obliques. and this is what i've learned about how to get it...

first thing is you need to have a low body fat, for men you need to be in the single digits, mostly lower than 8 but this is all just suggested.

second, anatomically there is no point in trying to work your lower abs dominals and upper abdominals because it is impossible.

third, abs should be worked like any other muscle with high sets of low reps. but this doesn't mean that doing a wimpy 10 sets of 5 crunches will do. it means that you load ur abs heavy. doing things like dragon flags and the evil wheel.

i recommend if you are serious about abdominal strenght AND development AND you got the cash you buy an ab pavelizer or buy the book bullet proof abs.

also, one last thing, crunches dont really work the abs, they work the hipflexors more than the abs.
 
If crunches don't work the abs, howcome my abs begin burning from them? My body fat is in that low single digits, body builders use the pinch test for body fat, you are clinically dead if you have an absolute body fat of 4%, only pinch test can be that low.

My body fat get get lower yet, and it will, but not by a lot. I should be able to get strong abs in a proper gym. I should need nothing else.
 
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dj, your abs are burning because of lactic acid accumulation which fatigues the fast twitch muscle fibers. The abs are one sheet of muscle but divided because of cross-sections and a portion of the abs tends to be slow(er) twitch, a portion of them fast, and a portion of them middle ground (or mixed twitch).

The portion of the abs that tend to start burnin are the fast twitch portion. Keep in mind that just because you "feel" something means it's working. My anatomy professor used to say, "I could hit you in the head with a hammer and you'd feel it, but that doesn't mean it's doing you any good." ;)

Some of us have great genetics and some of us don't. I've worked hard on mine through manipulating diet and lifting (the lack of cardio has been my ultimate undoing).

Make sure when you are doing leg raises that you pull the knees in first or otherwise you're pretty much just workin the hip flexors. I'd add some weighted ab work (and not just that machine) since you're workin on pretty high reps.
 
open your hand and close it into a fist for twenty minutes and it will get sore as well but its not a good workout

lots of people who have good abs get them from things other than their crunches. they may drop some crunches everyday but they most likely do something works them out like squats, deadlifts, or rock climbing. however, they chalk their abs up to their crunches. maybe you could a half hour of crunches a day, but thats just a waste of time.

i really recommend you buy pavel tsatsoulines bullet proof abs.

another thing is that the abs are made up mostly fast twitch (i believe its fast twitch) either way, those muscles respond best to heavy loading with few reps, oddly people like to hit them with high reps.

"My body fat get get lower yet, and it will, but not by a lot. I should be able to get strong abs in a proper gym. I should need nothing else"

i dont understand this part
 
Sorry, what I meant, is that I should be able to build abs in the gym that I am at, its definately big and expensive enough. Although, that being said, almost everything I do is free weight anyway. My body fat is rather low now, and it will get a bit lower, but not a lot. I should be able to have six-pack with the body fat I currently have.

I will look up that book on Amazon, and might buy it. You say its a great book, is it very up to date then? I have seen a lot of exersize books that are just plain old-fashioned and not soo usefull.

EDIT: I looked at the book, and it looks very.. GLITZY.. looks akin to 6 minute abs or something.. a little tacky. That in itself doesn't matter, so long as the content is good. It just gives me pause for concern.
 
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I am interested in seeing some literature that sayd crunches dont work the "abs". The Rectus Abdominus (RA) work to about 30 degrees of flexion, then you get into more hip flexore use. The RA also works from 15 degrees of hyperextension, which means, to use the RA throughout their full ROM, crunches should be performed on a stability ball so that the LB can go into hyperextension.
If Anyone has found other info, please let me know!
Thanks!
Wes
 
I think it's the law of irradiation that states that it impossible to isolate one muscle. This means, you can't make a fist without somewhat flexing your tricep and bicep. This means that when you do a crunch, no matter what, your hipflexors are going to pull you up along with the abdominals. The problem is that the hipflexors pull a lot more than they should so Janda sit ups come in to play.

In order to beat the law of irradtion (somewhat, it's impossible to do 100%) you need to fire the opposing muscle. This means that you clench the glutes, and hammies and the hipflexor will weaken. With janda sit ups, your partner holds the back of your ankles and pulls your feet away from your butt. You resist and thus cause tension in your hamstrings and glutes and weaken the law or irradiation which is happening in the hipflexor. Then, your abdominals pull yourself up pretty much on their own.

Sorry it took me a while to reply, I havent stopped by in a few days. I remember reading about the 45 degrees of the RA. However, I think that where we may be getting confused is in the fact the hipflexors still fire during that and the abs type a break.



Also, the book comes off kinda goofy cuz the author brings a lot of humor to his writing. But you should flip through a few more pages or go to the end where he talks about intra abdominal pressure and contrast breathing.
 
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