Think of the big picture...consistancy is key here...
a fitness specialist told me this.
- Thread starter realworksuks
- Start date
I don't see many conflicting views...
If you eat an extra 500 you'll put on fat and muscle, which you will cut the next day. Therefore, you've wasted two days of potential progress. Er...three. The day before that was wasted because you put on fat and muscle. The day after, you cut it back again.
If you eat an extra 500 you'll put on fat and muscle, which you will cut the next day. Therefore, you've wasted two days of potential progress. Er...three. The day before that was wasted because you put on fat and muscle. The day after, you cut it back again.
ok, yeah I see what you guys are saying, but still... I read on here that when cutting if you have only a 500 calorie or so defecit you won't lose any damn muscle anyway, so therefore this would be a good idea.
Now let's go back to my hypothetical example here.
am going through a cutting phase let's say, and I go to the gym and do a hardcore full body workout. I come home and have a big juicy steak with some chicken and vegetables. A very big high protein meal. Let's say that meal is 1500 calories. Won't my body just start to rebuild the muscle right then and there? So let's say for the rest of the day I just have a 300 calorie supper, of say fruits and veggies. That leaves me with 1800 calories for the day, well my maintance is 2200, so i'm at a defecit, so I should lose fat... but what about that huge meal I ate after my workout where I ate well over what I needed. Shouldn't my body have started to build muscle right after my workout and then quit building muscle near the end of the day when it became more deprived of nutrients?!?
What can you say about that?
Now let's go back to my hypothetical example here.
am going through a cutting phase let's say, and I go to the gym and do a hardcore full body workout. I come home and have a big juicy steak with some chicken and vegetables. A very big high protein meal. Let's say that meal is 1500 calories. Won't my body just start to rebuild the muscle right then and there? So let's say for the rest of the day I just have a 300 calorie supper, of say fruits and veggies. That leaves me with 1800 calories for the day, well my maintance is 2200, so i'm at a defecit, so I should lose fat... but what about that huge meal I ate after my workout where I ate well over what I needed. Shouldn't my body have started to build muscle right after my workout and then quit building muscle near the end of the day when it became more deprived of nutrients?!?
What can you say about that?
Eating those 1500 calories directly post workout will lead to fat gain bro. Especially the wrong kinds of macronutrients that your body needs at that time as well. As MarkMyWords said, consistency is key. Your meals should be balanced throughout the day or your metabolism is going to say uh-uh, not gonna do it. 1500 calories will be mostly stored to fat. This would defeat the whole purpose of your hypothetical example to lose fat.
By the way, if you get that post-workout meal spot on, you still won't be gaining due to the lack of calories needed thereafter to support muscle growth, just to maintain it. Cut or bulk man, you decide.
By the way, if you get that post-workout meal spot on, you still won't be gaining due to the lack of calories needed thereafter to support muscle growth, just to maintain it. Cut or bulk man, you decide.
listen, just maintaining isent wasting time. when you maintain you dont keep the exact ammount of fat and muscle you got on your body, you keep the exact weight! if you maintain over a week, you arent in perfect balance at all times, sometimes you will be a bit below, burning fat, sometimes you will be a bit over, gaining muscle (both in very small ammounts). Some people actually just maintain while lifting weights, and they do see improvements. Some people shoot for gaining maybe a steady 2 lbs a month, thats the way you can gain a bit of muscle and loose a bit of fat if your diet is good.
See now we're getting somewhere. He said in this hypothetical example EVEN THOUGH we are in a calorie defecit for the day we will STILL gain fat. So that must go the same for bulking as well.
Karky, what you said agreed with what my fitness specialist said by the way, that if you have a great diet and just stay around your maintance calories while training you can lose fat and gain muscle.. This is so confusing because different people say different things. Anyway though, about those questions.
I just want to understand the process of how the body handles all of this stuff, that's all i'm trying to get at..
So after working out I hear your body can potentially gain muscle for 48 hours afterwards? You'd think then that whenever you gave it the food required for growth you would gain muscle.. whenever you didn't you would either maintain or lose fat. Is that not right?
First you have to rebuild muscle before any growth can occur. Workout can actually be catabolic if you aren't supplying your body with nutrients it needs. You gotta take things one step at a time. I know that you can gain muscle mass with minimal to no body fat gain, yet I am not quite sure how the body works in losing body fat and gaining muscle mass simultaneously.
i understand what you want to know, and i dont know, i am wondering about it myself actually. I want to know the chemical process, what molecules goes where, everything like that and how long it takes, how the hormone thing works with this (which is an importaint key factor, that much i do know).
But the point people are trying to make, is that eating over maintence one day and cutting the rest wont give you any noticable results. Im willing to bet if you had a twin brother, same genetics, you were both equal in muscle mass, fat mass, everything and you both did cutting.
You did it with one day over maintence and he did it with all days under maintence. After, say, 6 months, i dont think there would be a really noticable difference muscle wise. if you want that extra muscle, just cut for 5 months and bulk for one month, or something like that.
Just an example.
Thanks for understanding the question i'm trying to get at. Of course in your example where me and my twin brother were both cutting and I went over the maintance for only a single day, and he stayed all days under maintance of course there wouldn't be any difference. I never was saying there would be any noticeable difference in ONE DAY! I am talking about if I would go over my maintance a couple days a week or something. So if I did this, that would essentially be cutting for 5 months, and bulking for 1 month if you added all the days together.
So i've come to the conclusion that the best way to bulk would definitely be to make sure your body has extra calories ALL THE TIME. and not just go on a from day to day basis. That means that if you just have one huge meal of 3000 calories once a day, as opposed to six meals that total 3000 calories per day it'd be way better. In fact, the one meal for 3000 calories each day wouldn't cause you to gain much muscle because it'd mostly go to fat right?
So this goes the same way for cutting too I would imagine correct? When cutting if you are having two big meals per day even though you'll be in an overall defecit you'd probably still gain fat then huh?
theleip
2
This whole thing hurts my brain.
Here is your answer as simple as I can give it...
In a day you need a certain amount of energy through out the whole day to provide your body with various functions.
Let's say that you need 2000 calories a day to function for your given activity.
Let's say that you in one meal digest all 2000 of those calories and don't eat anything for the rest of the day.
Yes your body is going to store fat and glycogen from that one huge meal.
However...
It will then turn around and use those stores that it needs for the rest of the day for energy.
Therefore in a day you will still be burning up what you take in. The difference only lies in using that energy directly from repeated feeds or from stores.
You have no choice now where these stores come from, are they going to come from the muscle glycogen? Are they coming from fat? Starve yourself all day and bug your hormones and trust me it wont just be fat.
The problem comes in the fact that you will create a unbalance in your hormone and delivery function of the body. These imbalances could cause you to develop a problem with insulin resistance among other things. When you start to incur these problems the energy number no longer applies to you.
You will not be breaking down food properly and therefore not be suited for this category of "average healthy person". These rules only apply to those who have a NORMAL body function. You mess up that body function and develop issues with thyroid, diabetes, etc and energy numbers, while still a factor to some degree, have a hard time battling the reactions of the body. So in this instance you could yes, store fat and not use it correctly for energy causing you to gain fat even in a technical energy deficit.
That explains the body fat loss aspect...
For the Bulk...
If you give yourself a giant re-feed for just one day then you are going to run into the same effect.
Your muscle glycogen can only be but so depleted and refilled. Your muscles can only use but so many amino acids for repair. The rest will be converted into fat.
If you are in a surplus of calories you will not burn up those stores through out the day. Therefore at the end of the day yes, you may gain a little muscle, but you will gain more fat. This is why dirty fast food massive caloric bulking doesn't work out great and leaves you with yes, pounds of muscle under LAYERS of fat.
What if I cut though and go to a deficit the following days?
Then you will lose some of the fat you stored from the day before. Then you still have to work with the fat that you had in the first place.
But I will have gained the muscle at least right, that is my point?
Not necessarily, all you did was refill your stores for that brief period of time, if the next day you are in a deficit again all that extra energy will in fact be used to provide normal body function. Since repair of muscle occurs over the course of time this isn't enough time to garner any real muscle repair.
Well what if I am in a surplus for a more than few days then?
Then you will gain muscle and fat. Overtime of doing this style of program you will be gaining muscle and fat. Therefore you will not be cutting, therefore it will be a bulk in the overall scheme.
You will not maintain much definition in your body but you will gain muscle. At some point depending on what you desire for a body look you would have to cut to lose the fat.
Do you understand now?
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Karks, read about satellite cells.
Everyone rep Leigh for her post, that was badassery.
Realwurk, go to t-nation and check out the article "The Carb Cycling Codex." It's an article written by Christian Thibaudeau that deals with cycling kcals through carb cycling so that you have minimal fat gain when trying to gain FFM or LBM.
Everyone rep Leigh for her post, that was badassery.
Realwurk, go to t-nation and check out the article "The Carb Cycling Codex." It's an article written by Christian Thibaudeau that deals with cycling kcals through carb cycling so that you have minimal fat gain when trying to gain FFM or LBM.
I agree, that was a very, VERY excellent post. I was going to ask the question "what about if we just bulk during holidays?" I don't know how long of an interval is really good or bad. During holidays I always eat over my maintance and I figure I might as well gain muscle while doing it. Something is telling me that it's not that easy though. Say one week during easter? What about a whole month during december?
Oh by the way Rep Given!
And thanks for recommending that article too. It did contain some terms that I wasn't aware of, but I got the jist of it. Great article. Got anymore by the way?
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Great post, theleip - uppin the rep power!
Another GREAT article for you, realworksuks, and everyone else is Testosterone Nation - The Truth About Bulking
It is very informative and puts a whole new spin on things.
Another GREAT article for you, realworksuks, and everyone else is Testosterone Nation - The Truth About Bulking
It is very informative and puts a whole new spin on things.
Leigh has a way of getting a confusing question answered effectively
And that article is by far the best article I've ever read on T-Nation. Anyone who has ever hit a plateau needs to read it (ie everyone).
~Nicole
ehh, Anyone know the answer to this question? "what about if we just bulk during holidays?" I don't know how long of an interval is really good or bad. During holidays I always eat over my maintance and I figure I might as well gain muscle while doing it. Something is telling me that it's not that easy though. Say one week during easter? What about a whole month during december?
true. Let's say we try to be very disiplined and just eat good food, then what?