Muscle Fatigue?

[xc3ss1v3]

Hello all...
I wonder if you would be so kind to spare some of your time to help me with a concern. I do want to start by saying I'm not really into any kind of fitness routines because of medical conditions (see below), but I thought this would be a great place to address a few questions.

First, let me give some background. Since I was a teenager, I have always been in athletic. Basketball was my main sport of choice, but I also played football in high school. Thoughout childhood and most of my teenage years, I kept up with everyone without tiring or breathing issues. Around my junior year (about 17 yrs old) I was diagnosed with asthma which limited my ability to keep up over long periods (obviously).

After high school, I dropped basketball (more out of a lack of interest) and picked up bowling. I have been bowling ever since (approximately 16 years) without any kind of muscle soreness. Keep in mind, at some tournaments, that means bowling 10-15 games a day.

To the concerns that I have. Aside from asthma, my body is in good shape. Not overweight in any way. Still have good muscle tone and stature. No physical issues (broken bones, repaired joints, torn ligaments, etc...). Basically, if I run, even a short distance, my legs will tire within minutes. To the point of not really being able to move them well. Not out of pain, but more out of a sheer inability to actually move them. If I rest and then continue, I'm sore for DAYS afterward. Examples... I played paintball yesterday for roughly 1 1/2 hours. Basically involved running quickly for very short distances, ducking, crouching for a few minutes, then advancing again. Short bursts in other words. Within 30 minutes, it hurt to move. Today, every step I take, my legs ache as if I had run a marathon. This same thing occurred during the summer after softball games. Just a constant ache for days after playing.

Now, I'm aware I'm not as young as I used to be and soreness and aches are expected. But, this just seems worse than it should be. Especially when considering how quickly my thighs tire with what seems to be minor strain...

I realize I haven't really asked any specific questions, but I think what I'm wondering is fairly obvious. Is asthma causing this even though I'm not experiencing asthmatic symptoms (breathing)? Is there something more going on that I should be concerned about (muscle disease?)? Are there things I can do to be proactive about reducing the after-effects? What about after (other than R.I.C.E)? My girlfriend suggested drinking milk very often?

I sincerely hope this is enough information for some thoughts on what could be happening. I appreciate your time, even if it's to say "You just need to see a doctor."

 

[Jrahien]

Firstly, what kind of treatment are you doing for your asthma. In the most severe cases that I've seen, I don't know anyone who's asthma was so uncontrollable that they were significantly hindered in their physical activity. Especially since you weren't diagnosed with asthma until you were 17, it shouldn't be so bad that you can't control it with a bronchodilator or corticosteroid puffer. Theoretically, impaired ventilation can cause early fatigue, but again, there are measures that you can take to prevent this.

Anyway, in terms of the muscle ache, I'm going to go with the old classic rule of "Use it or lose it". Sure, in those years, you were keeping your system active, but bowling involves very short-duration leg movements with quite a lot of rest in between. Since you weren't using those muscles for any type of constant, drawn-out activity, they essentially lost the ability to do them. (By means of a bunch of cellular adaptations which I won't go into.)

So, the soreness is just the same type that anyone gets when doing activity that they're muscles are unused to. (DOMS.) I wouldn't be too concerned. There was once a time when my calves would burn for a week following a 30-minute run. It stops after a while if you keep up the activity.

It's not hard to retrain yourself to again. If endurance is your problem, then just do endurance-activities. It doesn't even have to be running, if that's too hard on you. I'd recommend starting with cycling or even an elliptical machine to get your body readjusted to long-duration exercise.

 

[xc3ss1v3]

Thanks for the quick reply Jrahien...

In hindsight, what you are saying makes perfect sense. As the softball season progressed, I did notice that the severity and longevity of the aches and pains during and after the game seemed to decrease as the season progressed. While my legs still feel like they are full of lead today, they do somehow feel "better."

I'm guessing this is all just a result of constant strain for the first 10 or so years of my life on that muscle group to the next 16 years being very minimal strain? So, my solution would then be to use the RICE technique but also to re-train my muscles to be used in that manner again? Would going on a bike ride every morning before work be beneficial?

As far as asthma is concerned, it's never been something that would be considered severe. This is extremely ignorant on my part I know, but I do not carry a rescue inhaler not am I on any kind of preventative brochodilater (like advair). I haven't had any major issues with it years, even during softball season. Although, I will say that I know it is still there. While playing paintball, I could feel my chest tightening and becoming short of breath. If I were to go back on a preventative, such as advair, do you think that would assist in relieving the quick muscle fatigue?

Thanks again!

 

[CrazyOldMan]

Asthma medication will not directly affect muscle fatigue, with one exception. If you are working at the very edge of your aerobic capacity all of the time, your lungs will be restricting recovery and you will get fatigue from this, with inhaler your lungs will not struggle as much and you will be OK.
Generally muscle fatigue and DOMS (delayed onset of muscle soreness) are caused by overdoing rather than overloading and poor recovery cycle. Some detail below.
Overload is often mistaken for excessively overdoing training. Overload is literally doing more than you are used to. If you’re used to activities where you are active for 30 seconds and have 2 minutes rest, overload could be increasing activity to 40 seconds or reducing rest to 1.5 minutes, cutting rest altogether would mean needing to bring down the intensity to the lowest of levels, otherwise you are overdoing it.
I always feel a bit of a hypocrite when telling people to be patient as I am so impatient with myself, but time has taught me this impatience has to be tempered with understanding that not using any means injury or messes up other training. So I am patient on large scale to enable less patience on session level.
Recovery cycle starts the moment you have finished your session, and covers the parts far too many leave out. Cool down and stretch, if you don't cool down you will get blood pooling and leave toxins and waste in the muscles from your training. Gravity helps blood get to your legs but we rely mostly on muscular contraction around the veins to get it back out. By the time you have finished your cool down you should feel rested and ironically ready to go again. Stretching after exercise is the single best way to avoid most issues, including injuries, and one of the things many don't bother with. These should be at least 20 seconds each and can be combinations if time is short. They don't have to be dramatic targeted nonsense like touching toes etc. but they do have to be controlled relaxed movements where you are comfortable. Doing so makes you feel very relaxed and ready to sleep.
It's not hard to understand people not doing these. Most of us get to the end of a workout and are shattered, the idea of doing more is often unwelcome. However the rewards are worth it, and you feel euphoric after, mixture of relaxation from cool down and stretch along with endorphins from training is great.
One thing I said to another on these boards, it took time to get to the condition you are in, and will take time to get back where you want to be. Fortunately the body loses ability a lot slower than it gains it back as long as you are sensible.
Take care and enjoy your training.

 

[Jrahien]

Thanks for the quick reply Jrahien...

In hindsight, what you are saying makes perfect sense. As the softball season progressed, I did notice that the severity and longevity of the aches and pains during and after the game seemed to decrease as the season progressed. While my legs still feel like they are full of lead today, they do somehow feel "better."

I'm guessing this is all just a result of constant strain for the first 10 or so years of my life on that muscle group to the next 16 years being very minimal strain? So, my solution would then be to use the RICE technique but also to re-train my muscles to be used in that manner again? Would going on a bike ride every morning before work be beneficial?

As far as asthma is concerned, it's never been something that would be considered severe. This is extremely ignorant on my part I know, but I do not carry a rescue inhaler not am I on any kind of preventative brochodilater (like advair). I haven't had any major issues with it years, even during softball season. Although, I will say that I know it is still there. While playing paintball, I could feel my chest tightening and becoming short of breath. If I were to go back on a preventative, such as advair, do you think that would assist in relieving the quick muscle fatigue?

Thanks again!

Yeah, ice could help with the pain, but whether or not it actually helps work the DOMS out faster is debatable. As Crazy said, stretching is a good idea as well.

As for the asthma, your GP should be able to tell you what type of medication you should be on, whether its preventative or something short-term like Ventalin. I highly recommend that you get something for it though, as uncontrolled asthma can result in health problems later on in life.

 

[xc3ss1v3]

Yeah, ice could help with the pain, but whether or not it actually helps work the DOMS out faster is debatable. As Crazy said, stretching is a good idea as well.

As for the asthma, your GP should be able to tell you what type of medication you should be on, whether its preventative or something short-term like Ventalin. I highly recommend that you get something for it though, as uncontrolled asthma can result in health problems later on in life.

Can't thank you both enough for the help you've given thus far. Want you to know it's not falling on deaf ears. I've known for awhile that I need to get back on some type of preventative and have just been too lazy to do so. Sadly, my insurance covers most if not all the cost so it's fairly ridiculous that I'm not on one. I also plan on purchasing a simple bike and start riding in the mornings before work. I figure that would give me a good, low-impact routine that would strengthen the muscles in my thighs and calves. I'm not familiar with DOMS, but I'm assuming the bike would help with that as well. I will also keep in mind to stretch before and after.

Question, after a morning workout like that, is it best to take a cool or at least, not hot shower?

 

[CrazyOldMan]

I'm not familiar with DOMS, but I'm assuming the bike would help with that as well. I will also keep in mind to stretch before and after.

If you cause a bit of damage to your muscles, and ache a little the day after. This is a sign of sensible overload and moderation, the good stuff.
If you start aching within a day after training, are stil aching the day after and find yourself moving in ways to check you are still aching, that is overload with less on the moderation score, welcome to my world. This has to be done with caution and you need to build to it slowly, most think after the years I have been training I should have stopped this or grown out of wanting it, I refer them to my username.
If you don't ache until a couple of days after training, remember it's the actual sore ache feeling not stiffness etc. You have caused damage to the muscle to a level that will generate scar tissue and not aid your progress at all. It is pure negative all the way and most of us here will have done this on a number of occasions. Like me a number probably thought it was a good sign until learning otherwise. The name is what happens Delayed Onset Of Muscle Soreness, so you get sore but after you should have. If you get this, it's time to scale things down a good way, it is far better to build up to something than try starting at the top.

Shower wise I go for hot, because otherwise I stink and my family and colleagues shouldn't have to deal with that. Seriously I don't think it will make any difference with a shower, I know ice baths can be good but you are sat with legs out not stood up. Jrahien, will know better than me here.

 

[xc3ss1v3]

If you cause a bit of damage to your muscles, and ache a little the day after. This is a sign of sensible overload and moderation, the good stuff.
If you start aching within a day after training, are stil aching the day after and find yourself moving in ways to check you are still aching, that is overload with less on the moderation score, welcome to my world. This has to be done with caution and you need to build to it slowly, most think after the years I have been training I should have stopped this or grown out of wanting it, I refer them to my username.
If you don't ache until a couple of days after training, remember it's the actual sore ache feeling not stiffness etc. You have caused damage to the muscle to a level that will generate scar tissue and not aid your progress at all. It is pure negative all the way and most of us here will have done this on a number of occasions. Like me a number probably thought it was a good sign until learning otherwise. The name is what happens Delayed Onset Of Muscle Soreness, so you get sore but after you should have. If you get this, it's time to scale things down a good way, it is far better to build up to something than try starting at the top.

Shower wise I go for hot, because otherwise I stink and my family and colleagues shouldn't have to deal with that. Seriously I don't think it will make any difference with a shower, I know ice baths can be good but you are sat with legs out not stood up. Jrahien, will know better than me here.

Thanks for the info Old Man. I will wait for Jrahien's input as well. It's kind of hard to swallow, but I'm guessing I did overload the muscles and caused some scar tissue. I was not sore whatsoever immediately following activity. However, after 30 minutes or so, I had a little bit of an ache. But it's the dull kind you feel when you know your body is just tired. The next day was different. Ache turned to pain. Even touching (now 3 days later) causes discomfort due to tenderness. I can move on my legs better, but still have a noticeable limp in both legs. There might even be some slight swelling in my right thigh... no discoloration.

My guess is that I'm in the full onslaught of DOMS simply because my leg muscles aren't used to intense activity whatsoever. So, even the small quick bursts of running that involved in paintball did some damage. I'm hoping that riding bike for a few miles each morning will help train my muscles once again. I don't believe I'll be able to overdo that as there is a flat track not even 300 yards from my house. Do have a question though, should I ride just long enough to start feeling tired, till I ache just a bit? I know I should start slow and build up. Just want to make sure the time I out is worthwhile.

 

[CrazyOldMan]

The dull ache the day after is what you are after, but ideally not to the point where it goes on for several days, just one or two, by third it should be very minor at the very most.

Time and intensity on the bike will be very individual. I know you have given us some idea here of what you do and I would say go for duration at low intensity first to get the total opposite of what you are used to short bursts with long rests.
Once you have gotten used to that you can pick up pace on some days and interval on others.
Main thing is make sure your slow it down at the end to cool down and then do some stretching at home.

If you overdo it, maybe when you overdo it, most of us do. If it's your legs giving you grief have them elevated as much as practical, and keep them moving while there, not large movements just enough to keep muscles moving blood through your veins.

This is blood flow basics and why the above is important.
The heart gets all of the credit for getting blood around the body, it works hard and is important, it is not alone.
Arterial contraction, the arteries have muscular walls and continue pumping blood away from the heart all around the body. It's why piercing one means pulsing gushes of blood.
Gravity. The reason we need such high blood pressure is because we are bipeds and our head is so far above our hearts, and has to fight gravity to feed our ever hungry brain. The flip side is blood gets down to our feet really easily.
What I refer to as lazy veins. Veins don't have muscular walls they are simply tubes with no return vales along them. They use gravity when they can and muscular contraction and forced flow when they can't. Forced flow is literally so much blood moving around the body that it is shoved along the veins. Muscular contraction is where muscles surrounding the veins contract forcing blood along, and the valves stop it going backward.

If you want to see that veins really don't pump blood on their own and have some protruding on your arms or legs try this.
Place one finger along a vein and use another to push blood along the vein toward the torso. let go with the second finger, you will see the vein remains collapsed and no blood moves further along that vein.
It's amazingly hypnotic and addictive when you first do it

The fact veins need your muscles to help them remove waste is the whole reason for cooling down. Elevation means they get help from gravity, but ideally you won’t need that.

 

[Jrahien]

Scientifically, the exact mechanism of DOMS isn't quite known, but it's thought to be a combination of micro-tears in the muscle and inflammation. Having DOMS that last for a week isn't necessarily bad, though. It just might be unpleasant.

For what you should be aiming for, it doesn't actually matter how sore your workout makes you. The way I see it, it's entirely subjective. The only limit is whether or not you'll feel able to enough to exercise on your next planned workout day. If you can't work through DOMS, then take it easier with each session. If you can power through them, go ahead and proverbially kick your own ass.

In terms of hot vs cold, neither will actually help you get over the DOMS more quickly, but cold is shown to be handy in dealing with the pain. A full-on ice bath shouldn't be necessary though. Your muscles will react with a full-cold response with water that's slightly below room temperature.

 

[xc3ss1v3]

You guys are awesome. Thank you so much for all the explanation and suggestions. As of today, the aches and pains have taken a major step backward. I was able to bowl last night (surprisingly) without any discomfort at all. The soreness is all but gone from my left thigh and a little sore and stiffness remain in my right.

Hoping to get a bike for myself this week for Christmas and probably some gear to stay warm while out riding. Thanks again for all your help! I have a MUCH better understanding of all this, now.

 

[Albert Smith]

I understand your concern. Just don’t get too emotionally involved with the pain or get upset when you feel it. I would like to suggest you that detach yourself and simply use my all of my suggestions as information. I am not an expert of pain. I have been running for more than 6 years. All I can tell you from my past experience.

I also had same problem when I had started running. To me the main thing is to identify the source of the pain. While running we may feel pain for various reasons such as:

• We feel pain in our leg since we have just started running.
• We feel pain because of several leg injuries.
• The structures of our leg’s bones are week.

It you have been feeling pain for more than one week than take is seriously. There is something wrong going on over there. Consult with your doc and listen his advice. More importantly just detect the reason of pain and do whatever you need to be done so that this type of pain would not hamper your life again.