4 more weeks of carido+strength and still no change

Okay folks.....let me run this by you. Let's say you make $1,000 per week and you spend $600 per week...where's the balance, is there more coming in then going out? Do your savings increase or are you in deficit? Okay, all jokes aside, the outcome is quite obvious.

Say it with me: CALORIES IN VS. CALORIES OUT. This is an inescapable truth. It may disguise itself, it may be hard to detect and at times it may not even seem to apply...but it's an absolute.

Next rule; while the body can adjust and slow the metabolism to account for a calorie deficit, it can NOT cover the spread. You want to see it in numbers? Fine: let's say your BMR is 2,100 and you go into a solid 500 calorie deficit...your body can not lower it's BMR to 1,600 and cover the 500 deficit. It can adjust, it can try to account, but in the end it's a small percentage relative to the deficit.

Body Fat Percentage...can be an elusive thing. There's subcutaneous body fat (what's under your skin) and there's visceral body fat (deeper inside your body). Body-fat calipers can only tell you what's happening just under your skin and only in those areas that you pinch. The scales that incorporate BF% in them simply run electricity through your body and rely on the fact that water-dense fat conducts electricity with less resistance then denser muscle tissue. Electricity will always seek the path of least resistance, so if your standing on the scale it's running through one leg, across your lower body and back down the leg, then it often runs the calculation against your weight....it's rather ignorant of other areas.

Getting right to it. It still baffles and astounds me how some people just tend to lose weight, stay lean and can eat a lot of food...while others (myself very much included) have to fight for every damn ounce of fat loss. It's just genetics, but it's our cards dealt and it is what it is. Accept that progress may be slow and at times almost seemingly impossible. I have my days where I'm just blown away with how much work the body can do AND how few calories we can eat. Again; it is what it is, so you just have to work with what you have. Been there, doing that.

Here are some tips:

It is VERY easy to eat more calories then you realize. Keep a food journal, the accountibility alone will lean your out 20% of your intake just because you now need to re-think every choice: do you really want to have to add that to your list of food today? When most dieters tell me they haven't really seen any loses lately, it's right around that same time when they stopped logging their food journal. It's not a pain-in-the-butt...it's, in one word, ACCOUNTIBILITY.

Weight-training. I've seen way too many people just going through the motions. I don't enjoy the pain like other guys do, but still...the last 3 or 5 reps should pretty much be unpleasant and you know you're doing it right when you finish and have to shake it off or curse a bit. No pain, no gain. Make it count, keep your form proper, get motivated and don't just go through the motions doing a princess workout. The weight-training will not only reduce loss of muscle (which can account for as much as 30% when dieting), but it'll increase muscle and stimulate metabolism. Do it and do it 2-3x per week for at least an hour.

Cardio. An hour, minimumm 3-5x per week. Heck, it takes 20 minutes just to burn-up enough blood sugars just to get the body to start dipping into the fat. I've read some studies that suggest that after an hour your body starts burning 7x more from fat as it tries to preserve glycogen storage. Lower your intensity if you need to and stay away from high-impact stuff...but get on that cardio. Wear a heart-rate monitor, a unit with a calorie-counter is fun....shoot for an HR of at least 130

Have you heard of set-point theory? The body tries to maintain homeostasis, it looks to maintain a certain weight. Seems that way: I can eat 2,000 to 3,800 calories and see no changes. By caloric economic theory (as I opened this post with) it makes no sense, but the body does seem to hover around a certain weight. What you want to do is lower that set-point...and FOR PEOPLE LIKE US it's not going to be done with a modest calorie deficit and moderate exercise...you need to push it and push it HARD. You need to take it outside your comfort zone and move that insurmountable & stubborn set-point. Easy? It wont' be easy...but if you're going to make an effort, then the only effort worth making is one that makes a difference...otherwise your just wasting your time.

Would you entirely build a house to just knock it down when your done? No, of course not...so in the same manner ask yourself if you're really ready & willing to make this happen...cause it's going to be a long & hard road, one that's incredibly worth taking, but one that won't come quickly, easily or without a lot of suffering, pain & determination. Do you think it's just a coincidence that the word DIE is in DIET?

So here's where you're at. You are not a freak of nature, you do not defy science or the laws of physics. If you are not seeing results there can only be two reasons: 1) Your not really putting in the effort and doing the program honesty/properly OR 2) Your not using means capable of detecting the changes you've made. Cause you can not eat less, exercise more and not see any results in a positive direction. It can only seem that way and granted I lost 40 pounds and never felt or saw any differences...but it happens slowly and over time.

Sharpen your pencil, up your game, increase the intensity and stay focused on the bigger picture. Feel free to complain, bitch, moan & groan...your entitled to that while enduring this process.
 
Weight-training. I've seen way too many people just going through the motions. I don't enjoy the pain like other guys do, but still...the last 3 or 5 reps should pretty much be unpleasant and you know you're doing it right when you finish and have to shake it off or curse a bit. No pain, no gain. Make it count, keep your form proper, get motivated and don't just go through the motions doing a princess workout.

Cardio. An hour, minimumm 3-5x per week. Heck, it takes 20 minutes just to burn-up enough blood sugars just to get the body to start dipping into the fat. I've read some studies that suggest that after an hour your body starts burning 7x more from fat as it tries to preserve glycogen storage. Lower your intensity if you need to and stay away from high-impact stuff...but get on that cardio. Wear a heart-rate monitor, a unit with a calorie-counter is fun....shoot for an HR of at least 130

Have you heard of set-point theory? The body tries to maintain homeostasis, it looks to maintain a certain weight. Seems that way: I can eat 2,000 to 3,800 calories and see no changes. By caloric economic theory (as I opened this post with) it makes no sense, but the body does seem to hover around a certain weight. What you want to do is lower that set-point...and FOR PEOPLE LIKE US it's not going to be done with a modest calorie deficit and moderate exercise...you need to push it and push it HARD. You need to take it outside your comfort zone and move that insurmountable & stubborn set-point. Easy? It wont' be easy...but if you're going to make an effort, then the only effort worth making is one that makes a difference...otherwise your just wasting your time.

Would you entirely build a house to just knock it down when your done? No, of course not...so in the same manner ask yourself if you're really ready & willing to make this happen...cause it's going to be a long & hard road, one that's incredibly worth taking, but one that won't come quickly, easily or without a lot of suffering, pain & determination. Do you think it's just a coincidence that the word DIE is in DIET?

So here's where you're at. You are not a freak of nature, you do not defy science or the laws of physics. If you are not seeing results there can only be two reasons: 1) Your not really putting in the effort and doing the program honesty/properly OR 2) Your not using means capable of detecting the changes you've made. Cause you can not eat less, exercise more and not see any results in a positive direction. It can only seem that way and granted I lost 40 pounds and never felt or saw any differences...but it happens slowly and over time.

Thanks for all your input. It's certainly given me a lot to think about.

As far as weight training, I feel like I'm quite on the ball with that. I do weight train for an hour 2-3 times a week. And I don't do "princess" workouts. :p
I work hard, and I make it a priority to keep good form, take my time and do it right. I'm sweating at the end and my body feels thoroughly used. Weight training is the one thing I'm actually really motivated to do because I see an improvement (on paper) every time I work out.

Cardio...I don't have the stamina to do any heart-pumping activity for a full hour (excluding...some forms of cardio that seem less like work and a lot more like a good time. :D ). Aside from maybe walking? The point of doing the C25K program is to build my way up to it. If I swam for an hour, I'd drown. If I rode a bike for hour, I'd fall off of it. But everyone has to start somewhere, right? I'm just not at the point yet where I can do an hour of cardio at a time.

Set-point...yes, I'm familiar with this. For years and years I accepted that my set-point was around 140. It's the weight where I can eat as much or as little as I want and still not really move on the scale. When my weight started hovering around 150 I figured those 10 pounds would come off with some work. So I did some work...and no. So I'm wondering if, as I get older, my set-point is just creeping up higher.

As far as why I'm not seeing results...it's certainly not because I'm not measuring correctly. There's no mistaking the scale...the measuring tape...my clothes. And my pictures 8 weeks ago and now. Nothing has changed according to any measuring device. So that's definitely not it!

On the other hand, maybe it takes a hell of a lot more work than I thought. I honestly figured I'd do some running, lift some weights, watch what I ate and there'd be the slightest downward trend...but apparently it requires much, much more effort than that.

The parts of your post that I've put in bold are the parts that got me thinking... I don't want my diet or exercise to become uncomfortable, painful, difficult or tedius. If that's what it would take for me to see real results then...I think my real job is learning to accept that, while I may get healthier, I may not look much different or weigh any less.

And I think it's worth it to me to not obsess over what I eat or how many hours of cardio I've done in a week. If I run a few times a week, build up my strength and endurance and eat clean...I think that's enough for me. I'm not going to be a body builder, I'm not going to be a powerlifter or a marathoner and I don't intend to be a model so being buff and skinny are side effects that, if they don't appear with the effort I'm willing to dedicate then...I'm ok with that.

I actually set out with all of this (running, strength training, good diet changes) to get healthier, more fit. Not to drop pounds. I was surprised that they weren't coming off anyway, but it really wasn't my focus. It's easy to get sidetracked by the numbers, but I think your post has helped my regain my focus.

Thanks, I really appreciate the time and effort you put into your post. :ironing:
 
Glad you got something out of my rant... :D

For what it's worth (and Lord knows the forum has heard me say this time and again)....my first 5 weeks was intense cardio, weight-training and a solid diet...I really went lean on the calories, I rode my bike until sweat poured from my helmet and I lifted weights until my ears start turning red (OMG, that's from an ancient Cal Worthington commercial). I felt leaner and was certain I'd have a huge loss when I got on the scale. When I saw my nutritionist, and got on the scale, I had GAINED 2.5 POUNDS. I was crushed, devasted, demotivated and downright ready to hit the buffet.

Well, here's where my story deviates from yours....when he pulled-out the body-fat % calipers we saw a big drop. Yes, yes...muscle weighs more then fat.

So here's what I'm thinking. I think your jumping in front of the mirror and expecting to see your hair grow. You know, hair grows so slow that you just can't see it. My (blatantly obvious) point being that your probably expecting results faster/sooner then reasonable AND what results you do have can't quite be seen yet. I bet you've got a bit more muscle which replaced the fat that you've lost...so your pics, clothing and what-not feel about the same. Let's call that our happy-thought. :)

As we get older our bodies tend to lose lean muscle...yet we continue eating our usual amount; this basically results in people putting-on weight and generally it's written-off as our metabolism slowing down. Bottom line, your set-point is going to go higher as you age.

Now, I really don't like what I'm hearing about not being able to do an hour of cardio. I'm not talking about bouncing around an aerobics class and putting-out hardcore high-energy for a solid hour...I'm talking about getting on an elliptical machine, treadmill or something you can just be active on. You can't walk for an hour? You can't ride at a slow/moderate pace for an hour?? Fine....then start with 20 minutes and increase 10 minutes every week until you can do an hour: that really isn't all that tough...unless you're over 70 years old. And on that note, last week I was mountain biking and we had just come up a nasty-steep 17% grade that ran for about 1/4-mile...many people have to get off and walk their bike. Along came an older guy who I complimented on his endurance...when I asked how long he had been biking he said since he was young and he's now 81 Yes, 81 and he went up a super-steep hill and was at least 1 hour away from where anyone could park. So here's the message: you need to get yourself up to 1 hour, anything less is quite frankly pretty sad condition.

My cardio routine? Twice a week I go to the gym....I take a spin-class, then run 1.5 miles on the treadmill (to kill time until the next spin class), then I take another spin-class, then I swim a mile+ in the pool. 3.5 hours of cardio, spin-run-spin-swim...about 2,100 calories. Of course I didn't start this way, but I built up to it. And I keep my calories lean...and every darn ounce is still a major battle...but I'm absolutely determined to win.

More cardio, more more more cardio. Good deal on the weights, stay with it. Food journal your eating. The body is a stubborn thing, something it gets stuck and fights you...but if you stay on it, it'll give-in and you'll see movement. Trust me on this, believe in this and stay the course....just get more determined and turn it up a notch. I'm convinced results are happening, I just think your expectations are a bit too ahead of yourself and your body is being a bit stubborn along with a lack of ability to perceive results. It's not going to happen overnight, especially for us long-time over-weighters!!!!

You can do this...
 
Well, here's where my story deviates from yours....when he pulled-out the body-fat % calipers we saw a big drop. Yes, yes...muscle weighs more then fat.

So here's what I'm thinking. I think your jumping in front of the mirror and expecting to see your hair grow. You know, hair grows so slow that you just can't see it. My (blatantly obvious) point being that your probably expecting results faster/sooner then reasonable AND what results you do have can't quite be seen yet. I bet you've got a bit more muscle which replaced the fat that you've lost...so your pics, clothing and what-not feel about the same. Let's call that our happy-thought. :)

Now, I really don't like what I'm hearing about not being able to do an hour of cardio. [...] Fine....then start with 20 minutes and increase 10 minutes every week until you can do an hour: that really isn't all that tough...unless you're over 70 years old. [...] So here's the message: you need to get yourself up to 1 hour, anything less is quite frankly pretty sad condition.

My cardio routine? [...] 3.5 hours of cardio, spin-run-spin-swim...about 2,100 calories. Of course I didn't start this way, but I built up to it. And I keep my calories lean...and every darn ounce is still a major battle...but I'm absolutely determined to win.

More cardio, more more more cardio.

I think it's entirely possible that I'm expecting too much, too soon. I'm a very impatient person by nature and this has been a major exercise in...waiting, for me. I'm not sure what to think about my body fat %. I'm just using a digital home scale that calculates BF as well...it could be well off. I read the sticky on taking your own BF% with calipers. So..maybe I'll try to get a more accurate answer for that.

The cardio...I am working on. I started off getting majorly winded walking up a flight of stairs, so I have a lot of room for improvement. I could walk briskly for an hour. I'm still reading about the walking vs. running debate and which is better for you overall. I'm running in the meantime, but I have a lot more to learn. Maybe it would be better for me to forget running (I'm only up to 20 minutes running right now) and just walk an hour 5 times a week. Still to be determined...

Ok, 3.5 hours of cardio. That's...uhh, insane! I mean, it's great. But do you really need 3.5 hours of cardio a day to maintain your body? I can 100% guarantee that if I had to do 3.5 hours of cardio to get the body I wanted...I would very quickly accept my imperfect body. :)

Aaaaaand, I thought I'd bring up something interesting I read in a book the other day. It said that cardio is optional, weight lifting is mandatory. Weight lifting, apparently, burns more calories in the long run. They quoted a study in which some people ran for 30 minutes and some people weight liftied for 1 hour. The people who ran burned more calories during their workout, of course, but 12 hours later the weight lifters were burning more calories per hour at rest than the runners and had burned more calories in total since their workout.

Thoughts?
 
Thoughts?

Thoughts indeed! :D

I think it's entirely possible that I'm expecting too much, too soon. I'm a very impatient person by nature and this has been a major exercise in...waiting, for me. I'm not sure what to think about my body fat %.

I entirely empathize with you, my level of impatience is only exceeded by my love for chocolate. But seriously, you can go get a hair-cut and look in the mirror and see an immediate difference. Dieting sucks, you work your ass off and expect results, and seemingly nothing happens. Seriously, I managed to lose upwards of 40 pounds and honestly couldn't see it. And let me share this with you, I've talked with several uber-lean guys & gals who workout a lot and have single-digit BF%...guess what: even after a good meal or skipping a day at the gym THEY FEEL FAT, LOGGY, LATHARGIC, BLOATED AND OAF-LIKE. That's right, even though they look svelte, lean and railed...they feel just like you and I...so NEVER expect to feel light, lean and sparrow-like!!!!!!

So accept that it took a long time to put-on that weight, it's going to take a long time to get it off...and along the way you'll feel fat, heavy and as if no progress is being made. Yeah, for real. And when you finally get "there", you still won't feel light n' lean. Oh, and here's another nice shot to the nuts: even if you lose 98% of your weight, you'll ENTIRELY focus on the remaining 2% and obsess over it.

I had to experience this whole realization, what we expect and what is realistic is quite different....and you need to reprogram your thinking. Even the most beautiful people in the world have issues with their bodies and go nuts trying/striving to make it better. So just reconfigure your aspirations to figure you'll just make the most of what you have to work with. Seriously, I think you're expecting too much AND your means of measuring results isn't accurate. Those scales are just passing electric current through one section of your body...not all that accurate. And let me tell ya, as you lose fat you're skin may sag a bit and you may actually feel a bit fatter. Ever notice when your on the gain you feel a bit firm?....what do you expect as you deinflate?


The cardio...I am working on. I started off getting majorly winded walking up a flight of stairs, so I have a lot of room for improvement. I could walk briskly for an hour. I'm still reading about the walking vs. running debate and which is better for you overall. I'm running in the meantime, but I have a lot more to learn.

You don't even need to walk "briskly" for an hour...just get on the treadmill or whatever and keep moving, anything above resting HR is good. You can run for 20 minutes? That's great...running is tough. Here's my thoughts: do both! Start by walking for 10 minutes, then run for 3 minutes, back to walking for 5 minutes, then run for 3. The idea is to bring your HR up and then down again...this interval training is ideally (by what I've read) the most ideal thing...better then constanly hard or slow is alternating. Your endurance, stamina and performance will improve dramatically....you don't think I started doing 3.5 hours do ya??? Trust me, the body adapts and will rise to the occassion! And don't forget, your muscles, glycogen storage, respiratory, circulatory and everything will adapt as well. Nevermind the weight-loss, the cardio will DESTROY LDL cholesterol, abolish high triglycerides, increase your VO2-max, increase your HDL cholesterol (good stuff), lower your resting HR, circulate your lymph system, help keep you regular, increase your energy level, improve your bloodwork, immune system, etc, etc, etc...since you mentioned this was all about improved health more so then fat loss.

And please notice I delineate between weight loss and fat loss. I have many occassions when I'll have lost BF% and yet gained weight on the scale. Muscle is good, and with that let's move on....



I thought I'd bring up something interesting I read in a book the other day. It said that cardio is optional, weight lifting is mandatory. Weight lifting, apparently, burns more calories in the long run.

The answer is both, cardio AND weight-training

Cardio generally burns calories only when you're doing it...there is usually no post-workout benefits. True? NOT TRUE. Cardio is what opens-up your respiratory, circulatory and many other benefits. I've had a doctor tell me to do weights if I enjoy it, but cardio is the only thing that'll imrove my health. Well, he's wrong too. Here's why: weights can be done in a cardio-like fashion (circuit training) AND cardio can be done in a weights-like fashion!

In so far as burning calories, cardio generally just burns the calories as you do it. If you push hard, like my insane bike ride today which left my legs destroyed...yeah, you'll get some muscle-building...but on the whole cardio calorie burning stops when you stop the cardio.

Weight-training burns calories as you do it, but weight training also stimulates muscle growth and has a tendency to elevate your metabolism for up to 2-3 days post-workout. So you get the calories burned AND the bump in metabolism as well. Also, each added pound of muscle requires calories each day to maintain on your body. We used to think each pound of lean muscle requires as much as 80 calories per day to sustain on the body, but current research shows that it's as little as 6-20 calories per day. Still, it builds a bigger "engine" that is more calorie thirsty...so you can either eat more each day OR catch more deficit if you maintain calories.

One of the biggest reasons to do weights is that it helps maintain lean muscle. When your dieting, as much as 30% of weight loss is from lean muscle! Yep, the bodies looks to dump it's energy-dependence and lean muscle is on the cut-list. By doing weights you place a "load" or need upon your body to keep that muscle...it's like sending a note to your body that you need this muscle so don't you dare shed it. So do your weights!

Hey...let's go novel length on this post! :D

Let me explain something: your body stores glycogen for energy. When you're exercising only about 30-40% of energy comes from fat, most of it comes from glycogen (which is stored in your blood, muscles and liver). So check it out: each gram of glycogen requires 3 associated grams of water to sustain on your body. When your chubby neighbor goes on Atkins and cuts their carbs, they lower their glycogen storage....which means they also lose 3 grams of water for each gram of glycogen gone: THIS IS THE WATER-WEIGHT you hear about. As soon as they begin even eating a reasonable level of food again, they'll regain this weight. Also, they'll have dumped a lot of lean muscle. So yeah, they lost WEIGHT, but their actual fat loss is marginal. Ever notice that gaunt, wimply look they have? They reinflate the moment they eat even a reasonable amount.

Did you know that statistically 85% of diets fail?

That's NOT our path. We not only maintain our lean muscle, we gain muscle. We don't dump glycogen storage, our intense cardio prompts us to gain capacity. Please trust me, I have lost only marginal weight on the scale and yet my body is ENTIRELY different since I started.

It's ALL a matter of perspective. So stop sitting there bitching about the half-empty glass. I know its agonizing not to perceive results, but trust me...there's all sorts of stuff happening in that body of yours and you can't let a blindness or shortness of realization sabotage your efforts. Say it with me: you can NOT eat less, exercise more, do weights and not get results. It may seem that way....but you are making big changes and soon people will be complimenting you and you still won't get it. Been there, doing that! LOL: with each step towards your goal, your goal will take two steps away from you until it's backed into a corner, has no place to go and suddenly, one day, it'll hit you right between the eyes and you'll have an epiphany of realization of epic proportion. The things worth having in life don't come easily.

Get on it, keep on it, stay on it.....
 
BikeSwimLaugh...WOW.

u are amazingly smart and knowledgeable on the subject of weight loss and health altogether. if u are working and your job doesnt relate to this stuff, im telling u right now u could make a lot of money doing it.

i have a thread and i have a few questions in it. if you could just check it out and answer any questions on there, i'd greatly appreciate it.

my thread should be right near the top.

thanks.
 
First of all I would like tho echo the thoughts of bkfitnessrookie and wow Bikeswimlaugh you know your stuff. I also think you are doing a great service to others by sharing your knowledge and experience with people on here. It has been an interesting read for the last 10 minutes on this topic alone on a number of things I can relate to. On my first visit to this forum I have felt compelled to give my story and tips and advice I have picked up from a number of experienced sources, and have tied together to do what works best for me.
First of all, let me give you some of my history:
I don't know where you are all from but I am from Yorkshire in the UK. I was overweight throught my childhood. I started playing rugby league and got quite good. I represented my city for schools and club, and then the county. I trained regularly with elite squads etc but I was still overweight despite training and playing everyday of the week. This did eventually burn me out to the point where I was ill all the time, always aching and getting lots of injuries. I took about 6 weeks off, had a summer holiday and came back ready and refreshed raring to go again. Since then I make it a bit of a habit to have 2 weeks off from all exercise following the end of the rugby season. I do find this difficult to totally stop, but find it useful to have the rest.
I signed pro at 16, by that time I was doing regular weights sessions to complement my training. These were simple sessions attempting to build up basic strength and size. I would train 3 times per week, doing 2 chest exercises, 2 shoulder exercises, 2 back exercises and 1 bicep and 1 tricep exercises. I did variations of this for probably 2 years.
When I went to my pro club I was very lean, it came on really slowly and only really noticed myself when girls started showing an interest in me following school camp which was hot & sunny so I spent the week wearing just a pair of shorts and trainers. I must admit I am surprised how good I looked and how much I changed in that last year of school!
I went to my pro club and started doing along with more intense cardio and skills rugby training, regular complex weight sessions. I weighed a lean 12st 4lbs at my first weigh in at the club and was told I needed to live in the gym. They gave me protein and creatine and a diet sheet and ensured I did indeed live in the gym. After every skills/cardio session a group of about 6 of us had to do an hour in the gym. We were also given different stuff to do during the weights sessions aimed at bulking us up. Within that first 6 months or so I gained about 2 stone in weight, and was very lean with just 8% body fat. They actually told me I needed to put more fat on in an attempt to reduce possibility of injuries. As it happens, towards the end of the year, I broke my collarbone. It hurt! I was out for a while and came back about 4 months later. I had lost the 'six-pack', I weighed about 15 stone. I still maintained most of my bulk muscle but had put on a lot of fat. I had continued to consume the same amount of calories pretty much but didn't do any training. I came back to fitness, and after hard pre-season got into good condition again, but this time was about 13% body fat.
Anyway after a number of years, and many injuries. I tend to maintain a weight of about 15st 7lbs - 16st. I am now 28 years old, 5' 11" and (I haven't been weighed for a while) I reckon about 15st 4lbs.

Anyway, this is getting long so I'll get to the point!

After getting cosy with my new girlfriend with the cosy nights in and meals at her parents and consequent reduction in exercise, I crept up to about 16st 5lbs. I no longer play pro rugby. I packed in due to the number of injuries I was getting but I now play amateur, albeit still at a high level.
Having found my weight had gone up, and people noticing on the sidelines I was struggling with my fitness, and was quite a bit slower. I took on a diet and exercise regime to lose weight. I sought advise from a team member who is a personal trainer and radically changed my diet. Previously when I wanted to lose weight I would simply not eat. This resulted in tired spells mid afternoon when at work, and feelings of sickness and dizziness during/after intense training. I changed my diet to having 6 small meals per day. My typical diet now would be:
7am - Cereal (Special K) with skimmed milk, protein shake.
10am - 2 boiled eggs, or tin of tuna, or carton of cottage cheese
1pm - Apple, Low fat Yoghurt, chicken salad sandwich on w/meal bread.
4pm - Protein bar/shake, An orange.
7pm - Tea - Chicken breast, vege's & potatoes
10pm - berries, or low fat yoghurt

I made these changes slowly. For example, first of all I started using wholemeal bread only. Then I stopped drinking fizzy drinks and had dilute fruit juice, then started having water. I made gradual changes to continue to clean out my diet. I still have the odd treat, such as Friday night Domino's pizza with my girlfriend. I'll have the odd beer, a couple on a thursday after training, and a couple on Saturday after the game. But it will only really be a couple, that is all it seems to take to make me feel merry these days!!
Despite these changes, and after increasing my weights and changing the types of exercises, I found I reached a plateaux in my fat loss (As I said, don't really get weighed so don't know what I was weighing in at). I had taken photos every month which after a quick weight loss steadied off. I was then told to write everything down I ate. I did this, and after a couple of meeks the PT had a look. He said it looked good, he asked me to work out the calories, by weighing food, not just looking at the packet and guessing. I started doing this (THIS IS MY POINT I HAVE SPENT ALL THIS TIME GETTING TO!!) and discovered I was eating 4 or 5 times the calorie intake I thought. For example, my breakfast cereal, instead of consuming the 150 cals I thought I was, I was having more like 600. When I was having tea, I may have been having some wholemeal pasta (better than white right?!), instead of a portion size, I was eating about 4 times the weight and hence 4 times the calories.

Since then, I have been weighing my food and it has made a massive difference. I am losing fat like I was the first time I started. I am noticing it in my clothes, and a few people have mentioned it. I have not yet measured myself or taken photographs. I only do this at the end of each month. But I can feel a massive difference already.

So my point is Domestika, do weight your food, It doesn't take much. I have a set of small digital scales which lives on the kitchen windowsill. It is so easy to do, and has really made the difference for me.
 
Thank you all for the kind words. Just FYI, I'm an insulation contractor and nutrition, dieting and fitness is just my obsession...not my vocation. I take an OCD approach to most of what I do in life. If you don't research, learn and make educated decisions...my experience is that you generally regret it later.

I have to concur with Joey....I've always said (and realized), it's VERY easy to eat more then you realize. Most people underestimate their actualy consumption by as much as 25%; it's amazing how many calories are on food!!!! About the only thing more amazing is how efficient and low in calorie-demand our bodies are! :)
 
guess what: even after a good meal or skipping a day at the gym THEY FEEL FAT, LOGGY, LATHARGIC, BLOATED AND OAF-LIKE. That's right, even though they look svelte, lean and railed...they feel just like you and I... Oh, and here's another nice shot to the nuts: even if you lose 98% of your weight, you'll ENTIRELY focus on the remaining 2% and obsess over it.

hahaha...super! That is super news! But...also kind of nice to hear, that other people are the same.

So just reconfigure your aspirations to figure you'll just make the most of what you have to work with. Seriously, I think you're expecting too much AND your means of measuring results isn't accurate.

This is true...I am working on accepting what I have. And I'm getting there. My lack of patience is really taking a beating...I'm trying not to give it any voice at all. Trying...

Here's my thoughts: do both! Start by walking for 10 minutes, then run for 3 minutes, back to walking for 5 minutes, then run for 3. The idea is to bring your HR up and then down again...this interval training is ideally (by what I've read) the most ideal thing...better then constanly hard or slow is alternating. Your endurance, stamina and performance will improve dramatically....

That's really interesting! I hadn't heard that before. I know interval training is supposed to be great for your heart, but I didn't think I'd really benefit from it at my very low stage of cardio fitness. I thought you had to be more fit. I'm going to look into this. I think at least I'll completely the C25K first and see where I go from there... More research to do!

By doing weights you place a "load" or need upon your body to keep that muscle...it's like sending a note to your body that you need this muscle so don't you dare shed it. So do your weights!

I like doing weights and I want to keep doing them. Though, I did just read on another thread here that it's difficult to lose weight and gain muscle at the same time since one requires a calorie deficit and the other a surplus. And I can tell that I'm starting to get a wee bit of muscle under my fat. So if you weight train while dieting you're basically just ensuring you don't LOSE muscle, whereas when you weight train when you're not diet you're GAINING muscle?

It's ALL a matter of perspective. So stop sitting there bitching about the half-empty glass.

hahahaha...you mean...change who I am?
I kid ...sort of. I'm working on it. :D

with each step towards your goal, your goal will take two steps away from you until it's backed into a corner, has no place to go and suddenly, one day, it'll hit you right between the eyes and you'll have an epiphany of realization of epic proportion.

I love the visual. "Come back here! God damn it, goal. I said get over here!"

I really appreciate all your feedback. Invaluable. :)
 
He said it looked good, he asked me to work out the calories, by weighing food, not just looking at the packet and guessing. I started doing this (THIS IS MY POINT I HAVE SPENT ALL THIS TIME GETTING TO!!) and discovered I was eating 4 or 5 times the calorie intake I thought. For example, my breakfast cereal, instead of consuming the 150 cals I thought I was, I was having more like 600. When I was having tea, I may have been having some wholemeal pasta (better than white right?!), instead of a portion size, I was eating about 4 times the weight and hence 4 times the calories.

[...]

So my point is Domestika, do weight your food, It doesn't take much. I have a set of small digital scales which lives on the kitchen windowsill. It is so easy to do, and has really made the difference for me.

Thanks for sharing. :)

Good point, for sure. I've ordered a food scale from ebay because I've realised I have a similiar difficultly in figuring out just how much I'm eating and how much it dips into my calorie inventory. I think it'll make a difference.
 
I did just read on another thread here that it's difficult to lose weight and gain muscle at the same time since one requires a calorie deficit and the other a surplus. And I can tell that I'm starting to get a wee bit of muscle under my fat. So if you weight train while dieting you're basically just ensuring you don't LOSE muscle, whereas when you weight train when you're not diet you're GAINING muscle?

The whole idea that you can not gain muscle while dieting is FALSE. My nutritionist sites a research study where woman, under a fairly intense calorie deficit, still gained muscle. Many forum members will suggest it's not possible or just very difficult, but it rather depends on your psysiology.

Granted, my nutritionist calls me a freak...but I have almost consistently had lean muscle gains while concurrently having fat loss. As sited previousy, my first 5 or 6 weeks saw a Body-Fat % reduction of nearly 2.8% (that's fat off my body)...and yet the scale went up and showed a 2 pound gain in overall weight. My gains in muscle offset my fat loss to show an overall rise on the scale. Bottom line, you aboslutely can lose fat AND gain muscle at the same time....but it depends on the individual; results may vary! ;)

So yes, we do weights to primarily help preserve muscle while under calorie deficit, but done right we can also show gains in muscle while also losing fat. Bear in mind, we're talking about a reasonable & healthy 20% calorie deficit. If you were nearly starving, then muscle gains would be nominal if not unlikely.

The thing is...we sit here and micro-analyze every little detail and dimension to weight-loss...as if we're shooting a bullet through a bullseye. It's not that accurate of a science, it's just as simple as exercise n' sweat and more then anything, watch every morsel going into your mouth. More then anything, what you eat will determine the shape & size of your body! Sometimes I think the exercise just feeds our pscyhological motivation to push towards a leaner person: who runs on a treadmill and works-out super hard just to dump greasy pizza & ice-cream down their throat? I mean, make no mistake...exercise is good for you and it certainly burns calories, but the body is so efficient and then it drives you to replace those calories. If I've learned anything, it's again: what you put in your mouth determines your results. It's easier to diet your way to fat-loss then exercise.

Fact: a solid hour of exercise will only burn about 1-1.5 ounces of fat off your body, whereas a 500 calorie deficit will take-out 2 ounces!

So let me close on this. Think of your journey like an ocean voyage where you are going from here to Tahiti....sometimes you'll veer a bit off course a bit and not be headed in the right direction. Often you'll not see any land and so your perspective of progress will seem stalled....but in reality you are moving along and so long as you keep the general course in the right direction, stay the course and accept that you're on a slow boat...you will arrive there! Ya dig? :D
 
Domestika, I do agree with you about one thing so far: A diet should be a lifestyle change with excercise and eating habbit. It should be something that you can adhere to and keep up for a long time.

I am just concerned that you are not seeing results b/c you may be miscalating how much you consume. Most people will tend to OVERESTIMATE how much that burn and UNDERESTIMATE how many calories they consume. Like BSL said, weight lost is a matter of conservation of energy, just make sure to burn 3,500 calories a week more than you consume.
 
The whole idea that you can not gain muscle while dieting is FALSE. [...] Granted, my nutritionist calls me a freak...but I have almost consistently had lean muscle gains while concurrently having fat loss.

Haha! Ok, so you're saying it's not very common. Or at least, it doesn't happen without some serious effort. Well, that works for me. I'm not looking to build a lot of muscle anyway. I just want to get a bit stronger and not worry that losing 10 pounds means I'm losing 10 pounds of muscle.

The thing is...we sit here and micro-analyze every little detail and dimension to weight-loss...as if we're shooting a bullet through a bullseye. It's not that accurate of a science, it's just as simple as exercise n' sweat and more then anything, watch every morsel going into your mouth.

That's a very good point. It can become a bit of an obsession, to find the right "formula" for PERFECT fat loss/muscle gain. Honestly, just thinking about all of this stuff takes up a lot of my time. I think it would be a healthy shift all the way around if I just did my runs and my weights, watch what I eat and use my energy for other things more interesting than fixating on whether or not I'm doing every last part of my routine/diet to perfection.

More then anything, what you eat will determine the shape & size of your body! [...] If I've learned anything, it's again: what you put in your mouth determines your results. It's easier to diet your way to fat-loss then exercise.

I really hate hearing that. Diet is the worst part for me. I have an unhealthy relationship with food and it's not as easy as restrict your food intake" for me. I have an all or nothing mentality towards food and it's all very tied in with how I feel about myself and my value to others. It's pretty sad, really....it's just food, for god's sake. But nevertheless, it's something I struggle with. I'd rather focus on the exercise part. Once I start turning a really critical eye to how MUCH I'm eating...well, talk about obsession. So I just make sure my diet is as clean as possible and slowly work on developing a good relationship with the fuel I put in my body. :)

So let me close on this. Think of your journey like an ocean voyage where you are going from here to Tahiti....sometimes you'll veer a bit off course a bit and not be headed in the right direction. Often you'll not see any land and so your perspective of progress will seem stalled....but in reality you are moving along and so long as you keep the general course in the right direction, stay the course and accept that you're on a slow boat...you will arrive there! Ya dig? :D


hahaha, another great visual! But it helps. You're right...I think so many of us, myself included, assume that there is one straight trajectory that you have to take from sedentary to superfit and and wiggle in that line is a big, fat waste of time. But if you listen to your body at all those wiggles are inevitable, and probably end up helping down the road. Less burn out.

I'm going to be brutally honest to myself for a minute here and admit that I've probably latched onto this as a focus in my life because I have absolutely nothing else going on. I left my job, my life and my family to move overseas and now I'm here, I know few people and I'm not working or studying. I really have nothing better to do than sit around feeling bad about how much my body doesn't look miraculously different. I think I need to find something better to do with my time. :)
 
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Domestika, I do agree with you about one thing so far: A diet should be a lifestyle change with excercise and eating habbit. It should be something that you can adhere to and keep up for a long time.

I am just concerned that you are not seeing results b/c you may be miscalating how much you consume. Most people will tend to OVERESTIMATE how much that burn and UNDERESTIMATE how many calories they consume. Like BSL said, weight lost is a matter of conservation of energy, just make sure to burn 3,500 calories a week more than you consume.

Yep, it's entirely possible. I do my very best to be as honest as possible and I do measure things, but I could still be off. I've ordered a food scale for the kitchen so that should clear up any hidden calories lurking in my diet.

Of course, I don't intend to count calories/weigh food for the rest of my life. I basically just want to see where my current diet (not "diet" as in food restriction but rather just food intake) is at calorie-wise. I feel fairly comfortable with what I'm eating now, as in I don't feel deprived and I feel like I could keep it up without too much effort. I'm going to closely monitor it for a week or two, and then analyse it to see where I'm at. If the calorie content is ok, then good. I'll just keep it up, minus measuring and logging. If not, then I'll see what tweaks I can add. I'm already eating clean so I just need an idea of where I should be, portion-wise.

I absolutely do not intend to count calories as a way of life. A check-in once in a while might be ok (a week where I log and analyse what I'm eating), but an everyday thing? No...that's not viable long-term for me and I'm all about making changes I can carry decades into the future without feeling like I'm dragging a rock behind me.
 
Domestika,

I have been reading the boards up until now and trying to absorb all the great info here. I just saw your post and actually registered because of it. Unfortunately, I cannot offer advice except for you to keep it up!! You are doing great and you will see results and hit your goals!!

John
 
Domestika,

I have been reading the boards up until now and trying to absorb all the great info here. I just saw your post and actually registered because of it. Unfortunately, I cannot offer advice except for you to keep it up!! You are doing great and you will see results and hit your goals!!

John

That's really sweet! Thanks.

:)
 
D,

I just read what you wrote and I think there may be a bigger issue here. In an ocean of uncertainly, teamed with a huge change & move in your life...it's very easy to regress back to our core inner self-esteem by examing our bodies and somehow letting that become a core focus to dictate where we stand in life. OMG I hope that makes sense....but sometimes that's how we work. The car, the job, the relationship...all that stuff is built on top of our core existence in life...and when you really think about who you are, it's all too easy to reflect and look at our own physical being: our bodies...for there is no life without our body.

Depressing as it is...even the most beautiful people in the world continue to look at their bodies and want more and feel insecure about things. I recently saw some video on YouTube with Carmen Elektra modeling some stuff and she just looked AMAZING...but as she stood there turning, I'm sure she was hoping the camera wasn't catching something and she wouldn't mind a few more weeks to work on a certain part of her body.

Maybe you feel something is missing from your life, perhaps your striving to find a foundation to to rebuild on...or maybe, as you suggest, your just turning the gears of time clicking away on a keyboard. Regardless, there is a certain key element of security and self-esteem we can find by controlling our bodies and certainly from the endorphins we get from exercise. I'm just saying, we all have these issues in our heads. I used to say, there are only two kinds of people in this world: those who are insecure and those who are in denial of being insecure. ;)

Take it from me....ease-up on the intensity and strive to enjoy life as best we can. Chasing the body has its rewards and merits, but in the end it's not a solution, just a diversion. I'm not entirely sure what that means, but I'll leave it for each person who reads this thread to interpret it as it applies to their own life. :D

BEYOND THAT....you don't need to count calories. Do it for a while and you'll soon develop a core feel for listening to your body. Remember, your body needs food so we have a VERY strong compulsion to eat 24/7...it doesn't mean your weak or indulging something shallow, your just human.

I can't convey and address everything I want in writing, but I really feel I hear ya...
 
Hi guys, Domestika, If you have moved away from everything to work or for whatever. Well done, it takes some courage to do that. I've been deliberating over doing it for years, and I'm still here in the same place making excuses to myself for reasons I haven't got round to doing it yet. First I needed to finish my degree, then I wanted to finish the rugby season at the club I was at, and now, my girlfriend has some health complications so I want us to stay here where she is in with the hospitals and her parents are here to help out if necessary...but anyway. I figured if I went somewhere I would try to make it easier by making friends and building a social life as soon as I could. If I went abroad, I would find a rugby team to play for. You should try it, not a rugby team but some sort of activity thing. Either a running club, or if that isn't your kind of thing, join a climbing club/swimming club/have golf lessons/join a dance class/go to an art class/join in the classes at your gym, pick boxercise so they partner you up with people. I don't know why you aren't working and it is none of my business, but find a job to interact with people, it doesn't have to be a career, maybe work in a restaurant just to meet people and get in on the staff nights out. Don't feel bad about where you are, take the opportunity to explore it. You may feel you missed out doing that when you do start working! If i've offended you in anyway by what i've said i apologise, I don't mean to do that. It is just the approach I see myself taking if I move away, obviously I haven't had the bottle to do it yet so you're alot further in front than I am!! Where do you live out of interest?
 
I just read what you wrote and I think there may be a bigger issue here. In an ocean of uncertainly, teamed with a huge change & move in your life...it's very easy to regress back to our core inner self-esteem by examing our bodies and somehow letting that become a core focus to dictate where we stand in life.


Most definitely. I'm glad I'm not the only one who does that.

Take it from me....ease-up on the intensity and strive to enjoy life as best we can. Chasing the body has its rewards and merits, but in the end it's not a solution, just a diversion. I'm not entirely sure what that means, but I'll leave it for each person who reads this thread to interpret it as it applies to their own life. :D

I get it. :) For sure. I've been doing a lot of thinking about this and...like so many people I often fall into the trap of "when my body is perfect then I'll feel the very best". But...I look around at people who are carrying a lot more weight than I am...and are a hell of a lot happier than I am! I've always said I'd rather be fat and actually happy than thin and unhappy. After a while I realised that being happy was probably more work for me than being thin so I figured I'd just work on that instead. But it might be time to re-evaluate that. :)

Probably one of the least fitness-y threads on the forum, but the one I've gotten the most out of, I think. :D
 
Hi guys, Domestika, If you have moved away from everything to work or for whatever. Well done, it takes some courage to do that. I've been deliberating over doing it for years, and I'm still here in the same place making excuses to myself for reasons I haven't got round to doing it yet. First I needed to finish my degree, then I wanted to finish the rugby season at the club I was at, and now, my girlfriend has some health complications so I want us to stay here where she is in with the hospitals and her parents are here to help out if necessary...but anyway. I figured if I went somewhere I would try to make it easier by making friends and building a social life as soon as I could. If I went abroad, I would find a rugby team to play for. You should try it, not a rugby team but some sort of activity thing. Either a running club, or if that isn't your kind of thing, join a climbing club/swimming club/have golf lessons/join a dance class/go to an art class/join in the classes at your gym, pick boxercise so they partner you up with people. I don't know why you aren't working and it is none of my business, but find a job to interact with people, it doesn't have to be a career, maybe work in a restaurant just to meet people and get in on the staff nights out. Don't feel bad about where you are, take the opportunity to explore it. You may feel you missed out doing that when you do start working! If i've offended you in anyway by what i've said i apologise, I don't mean to do that. It is just the approach I see myself taking if I move away, obviously I haven't had the bottle to do it yet so you're alot further in front than I am!! Where do you live out of interest?

Hahaha..I'm not offended at all. I'm certainly not making the most out of my time here and I'm fully aware of it.

I'm originally from Canada but I'm living in Iceland. Don't be too hard on yourself about not having gone and uprooted yourself across an ocean. It's extremely hard and a very daunting task if you don't know the area or anyone there to begin with. My husband is Icelandic, which made it much, much easier.

I'm not working because my residency permit hasn't come through yet. It takes months and months so I'm kind of stagnating in the meantime. I'm also at a bit of a disadvantage because I don't speak the language so I can't really go to school here, though I would like to. I'm learning the language but it's one of the most difficult in the world to learn (no, seriously, it's amongs the hardest along with those African languages with the clicks and grunts). It definitely hampers my enthusiasm for fully participating in life here.

I've been looking for a kicking boxing class or karate or something. Just something to get me out of the house a few nights a week and get some exercise, meet some people. It sounds lame but...I haven't done it because all the websites are in Icelandic so I don't know when the classes start or when they are or anything. I could get my husband to help...but I feel lame for needing to ask. Did I mention I'm a perfectionist? :D

I'm continuing on learning the language and hopefully I'll get to a point in the not to distant future when I can actually comprehend what's going on around me. I'm already a very introverted person so I use the language barrier as an excuse for not participating in life here. So I'm trying to take at least the one barrier down and see where I'm at.

Shame about your gf's health. :/ I can certainly understand why you wouldn't want to up and move if that's the case. Maybe it's for the best? I'm sure your both better off where you're at until she's on the mend. :)
 
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