I'm reading I should *not* be doing cardio?

B

Blackcub

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I'm 5'11 and weigh 210. I'm trying to work down to 175 so I've got 35lbs to go. I've taken up weight training now, I'm working my calories around 2000 a day to stay in deficit but I'm reading I should not be doing cardio since I'm a beginner to weights?

I want to lose weight as quickly as possible and I have all the tools to do it. Heres my workout and my diet. Please make changes to help me melt off fat FAST!

Diet
Meal #1: Bowl of Oatmeal, Raisins
Preworkout: 2% Milk (8 ounces) + Whey Powder
Meal #2: Cottage cheese, Canned Peaches
Meal #3: 1 Egg, Onions/Peppers, Shredded Cheese, Tortilla
Meal #4: Healthy Choice Soup, Tuna Wheat sandwich, Slice of cheese
Meal #5: Baked chicken breast, Salad, Fat-free dressing
Beforesleep: 2% Milk (8 ounces) + Whey Powder
*all single servings

Workout
Monday: 10min cardio light run, FBW with dumbells
Tuesday: 25mins interval training on the elliptical machine
Wednesday: Same as Monday
Thursday: Same as Tuesday
Friday: Same as Monday
Saturday: Same as Tuesday
Sunday: Same as Tuesday (yes, more cardio)

FBW
Super Set #1: DB Squats, DB Shoulder Press
Super Set #2: DB Rows, DB Bench Press
Super Set #3: DB Dead Lift, DB Bicep Curl
Reps: 8-12 (if I can do 13 on my 3rd set I up the weight next time)
Rest: 30sec between sets, 2mins between supersets

Is there anything I can do to really explode my metabolism and get rid of the fat? I don't want to hurt my muscle gain (I've heard I can gain 10lb of muscle in 8 weeks? Sounds awesome!) but I want to lose that 35lbs quick!
 
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Uhhh. You aren't going to be building muscle and losing weight at the same time, it's very difficult to do and takes a very long time. You might make small gains in muscle since you are a beginner, but you cannot do both at once.

If you are looking to drop the weight, do cardio. Once you have lost the amount of fat you wanted to, then you can worry about building the muscle.
Continue with the weights, it's also good for burning fat.

And 10lbs of muscle in 8 weeks is godlike. 4lbs in 8 weeks is a more reasonable goal, and even that might be lofty depending on how genetically predisposed you are to building muscle.
 
Let me rephrase then.

Can I gain muscle and lose fat at the same time? If so, is my diet/workout designed properly? Will my cardio hit my muscle gain too much?

I've been told weight training and diet is more important than cardio, ultimately, if I want to melt fat off quick.
 
Blackcub said:
Let me rephrase then.

Can I gain muscle and lose fat at the same time? If so, is my diet/workout designed properly? Will my cardio hit my muscle gain too much?

I've been told weight training and diet is more important than cardio, ultimately, if I want to melt fat off quick.
Click to expand...

Your question was already answered. NO. Its so difficult to lose fat and gain muscle simultaneously, that you're better off doing one, or the other.

Newbies can do both, to a degree, for a few weeks...then the body "Learns" and you must pick one or the other.

Lift weights to burn calories ,and get stronger.
Do cardio to burn calories, and tap into stored fat for energy.
Mostly, pay attention to your diet.


I think you must have read something about 'taking it easy' as a beginner...not doing cardio for the first couple of weeks, so you don't overload your system, or injure yourself.
 
malkore said:
Your question was already answered. NO. Its so difficult to lose fat and gain muscle simultaneously, that you're better off doing one, or the other.

Newbies can do both, to a degree, for a few weeks...then the body "Learns" and you must pick one or the other.

Lift weights to burn calories ,and get stronger.
Do cardio to burn calories, and tap into stored fat for energy.
Mostly, pay attention to your diet.


I think you must have read something about 'taking it easy' as a beginner...not doing cardio for the first couple of weeks, so you don't overload your system, or injure yourself.
Click to expand...


So you're telling me that the last 2 months at the gym I've been gaining muscle and not losing any fat...guess that explains why my pants no longer fit me...right? cause I haven't lost any fat but have gained muscle...

if you don't believe that i've packed on muscle while losing weight then look at my journal and the pics i've posted.

I thought the preachings on here were to put yourself in a mild caloric deficit (500 cals /day) to lose about 1 lb per week, and to continue to lift to ensure your muscles don't get cannibalized and that lifting was the a #1 choice to assist in weightloss after making the proper dietary changes with cardio being an extra to help caloric deficit.

Where's Chillen...he'll know the answer...
 
Maybe you've lost fat and not gained any muscle, ever think of that?
Also, Mreik doesn't say it's impossible, just that it is very difficult.

How do you know that you gained muscle and how do you know that you lost fat?
 
how did i increase my bench 40 lbs back to what I was benching in college and how did move from barely being able to do 5 pull-ups to doing 3 sets of 8 and not gain muscle?

I wasn't saying you could gain 10 lbs of muscle and lose 35 lbs of fat in 2 months. I've only lost 10 lbs in 2 months...i certainly haven't lost muscle mass though.

How do I know I've lost fat? My pants have about 3 inches of room in them now at the waist, my belt has moved from the 2nd notch to the 4th notch, my face is a bit thinner, you are seeing more definition on my muscles, and a few different people have started to comment on how much skinnier I look.
 
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You don't need to increase your muscle mass in order to get stronger. If you ask me, you have probably lost a lot of fat, slightly lost, maintained or slightly improved muscle mass. Though if you improved it, it would probably be very little. But since you're losing that much weight, your probably focusing on losing fat anyways, right?
 
firefreak said:
I am focusing on losing fat. I still maintain that I've increased size in my back and chest though.
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Leaning out definitely makes you appear larger, especially when the cuts get deeper. And like Karks said, you don't have to get bigger to get stronger. Your CNS gets better recruitment patters, lifts become more efficient, and you learn the best way to get from A to B.
 
firefreak said:
So you're telling me that the last 2 months at the gym I've been gaining muscle and not losing any fat...guess that explains why my pants no longer fit me...right? cause I haven't lost any fat but have gained muscle...

if you don't believe that i've packed on muscle while losing weight then look at my journal and the pics i've posted.

I thought the preachings on here were to put yourself in a mild caloric deficit (500 cals /day) to lose about 1 lb per week, and to continue to lift to ensure your muscles don't get cannibalized and that lifting was the a #1 choice to assist in weightloss after making the proper dietary changes with cardio being an extra to help caloric deficit.

Where's Chillen...he'll know the answer...
Click to expand...

Simply put, I believe you.

I have learned many things in life, and I continue to learn many things to this date, and one of the things I have learned is when you think you have seen everything, you simply haven't.

To blanket phrases such as: "No you cannot build muscle and lose fat at the same time" is both true and false; "to say you cannot gain muscle tissue when gaining strength, is both true and false"; because of the varying degrees within our biological differences we all share in common, and what one is "actually" doing in diet and their training.

I have been training a relatively short period, some in the fitness community would opinion (3 years); however, let me share something with you.

When I first started, I wanted to lose weight and simply wanted abs (uh, yes, like so many-->:), and was 190ish pounds, and dropped to 152/154 pounds. This is nearly 40 pounds of tissue loss (not counting the muscle growth offset). No, I wasn't a rippling set of muscle mass, nor was I skinny (in the healthy sense). However, I was 4 to 5 times stronger than started (at the time), and carried calorie deficits (the vast majority of the time--only with occasional surpluses-to put this in simplistic terms).

I in fact, built muscle and lost fat tissue for more than a year, though I would term it suboptimal (in the muscle growth and strength gain sense), and this was mainly due to my personal goal wants at the time.

My point is that though it may be suboptimal (for some), it is in fact possible to gain fat and lose fat tissue at the same time---for longer than people generally believe--for some; especially when first starting, and dependent on their status (physically, biologically) when first starting, and the nature and aggressiveness of training/diet.

One thing I know for absolute certainty. If I had not weight trained, and kept the diet the same (keeping things equal), the quality and type of the tissue loss/muscle built, would have resulted in a vastly "different" physique in June 2007, than the one I ended up with in June 2007, while aggressively weight training. It quite simply impacted and shaped and developed things along the way.

I believe there is truth in stating that while training in a calorie deficit that muscle growth and strength can be compromised (and subsequently) cause progression problems in one's program at some point--especially with a person that has been training for a while, and I think its safe to say you will experience this, if you maintain strict calorie deficit (without manipulations) at a certain point in time. When.....this is up to the variances of your training, diet, and other factors.

However, simply put: I believe you when you say you are gaining strength, losing fat tissue, and potentially gaining muscle at the same time.

It is possible.

Best wishes,

Chillen
 
firefreak said:
I am focusing on losing fat. I still maintain that I've increased size in my back and chest though.
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Congratulations! You're a genetic freak.

Listen, everyone is unique. We can't give 'precision' information to the general population.

The standard is this: you can indeed do body recomposition training/dieting...trading fat in for muscle at a fairly slow pace.

For most people, the pace is too slow, they get frustrated, and quit before they can see results.

This is why its easier for MOST people to lean out and put on mass in separate training cycles. They see the results more quickly and that excites them to stay on task.

As for 'I lost 10 lbs in 2 months while getting a bigger chest'...that's awesome...but are you really tracking the right metrics? Did you have someone experienced in body fat testing test you? Did you use a tape measure to measure your arms, chest, etc?

if you are going by the scale/weight alone...I still say "congratulations on your success, and KEEP AT IT"...but in all honestly, I can lose 2lbs in 20 minutes just taking a massive dump...so 10lbs in 2 months could be skewed the same way...water retention, bowel retention, a full stomach, etc.

Plus, 2 months of training is barely getting past the 'beginner phase'...which as I already mentioned is one time frame when you CAN lose fat AND gain muscle at a reasonable rate. Its such a shock to the system to suddenly need to burn calories for fuel while also repairing muscle and making it stronger.

Some people adapt quickly...some take longer than 'usual'. Again, because we are all unique.
 
i was just using it as an example, and its a fairly consistent weight over several days on the scale at the same time of day...not like i jumped on the scale 2 months ago to weigh myself and just jumped back on again after 2 months to see a 10 lb loss. the first month i actually gained weight. I am more than aware about hydration levels and your weight as it corresponds to them. both weights were in the AM, just after taking my morning piss and in actuality i ate a buttload more the night previous to the morning where the scale said i was 10 lbs lighter. everything was also on the same scale.

but thanks for trying to minimize my efforts and my excitement for having lost the weight I have so far while getting stronger...appreciate it.
 
malkore said:
Congratulations! You're a genetic freak.
Click to expand...

Time and again and AGAIN and AGAIN I keep hearing this notion "You can't gain muscle AND lose fat" :confused:

Okay, so get this: it's not impossible, but granted: it's not TYPICAL.

I was on a typical mediocre diet for about 4-5 months, then I got hooked-up with a nutritionist who took all my measurements. (We've all heard this before, but it's for the OP)...then I got uber-serious about making some kick-ass progress. I rode my mountain bike for hours with sweat pouring from my helmet, laps in the pool and I moved heavy weights 2-3x each week....all while cutting back on calories.

2 months later I went in...looking leaner, feeling slimmer. I got on the scale and GAINED 2.5 pounds!!!! But then he took my body-fat% and the calipers said I lost 2.8%......FAT GONE, MUSCLE GAINED.....end of discussion.

I asked my nutritionist how freakish this is, he said it was off the scale freakish....but from my perspective I'll tell anyone it can be done! And these guys are clearly experiencing the same thing!

BUT in general, my nutritionist explains, that up to 1/3 of most weight lost in the initial dieting period is actually lean muscle. Most people don't gain muscle while losing fat...so the mod's are TOTALLY CORRECT in what they say.

FWIW, I consistenly see muscle gain AND fat loss with each visit. My last visit was a wash on the scale...no change, yet the body-fat calipers showed a drop of .06% which relates to about one pound of fat off my body...but the lack of movement on the scale suggest I've gained muscle. I'd think hydration, but I was really thirsty, so it pointed to...yes, muscle. Truth is, we never know exactly what came from what...but I consistently look leaner, clothes are fitting looser, smaller sizes are fitting and the scale sometimes hardly moves...but the BF% is always dropping!

You also have to remember, muscle often gets denser and not always just larger. Also, Mreik is spot-on with his remark about how a loss of fat alone can make someone look larger...but that doesn't mean the OP or ff aren't gaining muscle! Fact is, if their clothes are fitting looser and they're looking leaner....yet the scale isn't dropping, then they're probably gaining muscle and certainly losing fat.

There is NOTHING more frustrating then working your ass off and getting on the scale and not seeing results!!!! The scale is a poor measure of what is going on, it just tells you what you weigh...but we still religiously turn to it and just about everyone, knowing you are on a diet, will ask "so, how much weight have you lost???".

Let's get to point and help this guy.

First-off....10 minutes isn't cardio, it's a warm-up! You're barely burning-up the sugars in your blood....popular theory suggest you don't even break into your fat reserves for the first 20 minutes, so increase your cardio to at least 30 minutes, work up to 45 minutes and aspire to perspire** for an HOUR.

** "Aspire to Perspire" copyright Chillen 2005, July 14th, thread#02734321

Secondly, I'd prefer you do your weights one day and your cardio on another day. If you must combine, do your weights FIRST and your cardio SECOND. Why? Because you can't burn fat fast enough to fuel the intense muscle contractions involved with weights. Weights are largely anerobic and require the energy you have at-ready. Do weights up to one hour but no more. You'll use your sugars and high-energy for weights, THEN your body is more so reverting (or "spinning-up" as I like to say) fat to replenish energy....that's the time to get into some Low-Intensity-Steady-State (LISS) cardio and burn-up some fats. After weights you can top-off with maybe 30 minutes cardio...but be darn sure to get some quality protein and carbs into your body afterwards!

Given your goals, here is what I'd suggest & why:

Diet is the key....keep a journal, get OCD over everything you put in your mouth, go ahead and run a 30-35% deficit. Most people will shoot for 20%, but that's a general rule....screw it, you want results, go 30-35% but understand you don't want to run this deficit for sustained time....I'll cycle between 20-35%. But yeah, diet is the key!!!!! Don't let that exercise fool you into thinking you're entitled or burned enough to accidently take-in an extra 1,000 calories! On days you do more then 1,000 calories of exercise, you may eat an extra 25% of those calories burned (burn 1k calories, eat an extra 250 and do it in 3 parts clean carb, 1 part protein).

Weights....gotta hit 'em. Building muscle is fine, but more then anything your body is going to cope with the calorie deficit by trying to reduce overhead: yep...kiss your lean muscle goodbye UNLESS you let your body know you need that muscle. How? Simply by placing a load on those muscles. You don't have to shoot for muscle beach and pro-wrestling (steroids!!) size...just use those muscles, hit every group and let your body know: don't spare the muscle!

Cardio....burns fat! Legs are your biggest muscles....elliptical, bike, spin, treadmill...work 'em , run 'em, light 'em up! Up to an hour a day. The tubbies on Biggest Loser sometimes go 3 hours. I'm sorry, I'm sorry....did I hear you right when you said you wanted FAST results? 10 minutes you say? You call that cardio?...no my friend. I want to see an f-in puddle under your machines. As Jillian is fond of saying "Keep going until you puke, die or pass-out or I'll rip your ****in' arms off and ****ing ****ing shove your ****ing hamster ****ing purple monkey ****ing hamstring ****ing ****ing your ass!

Want a bump? Your upper body isn't used to doing cardio....discover the joys of rowing or swimming, it'll not only burn calories but stimulate new muscle development on account of the new demand. Hint: the bigger your chest, the smaller by proportion your waist will look! Nothing will build, tone, chisel, cut, burn-fat and develop your upper body like swimming! Can you say Butterfly stroke? :action6:

Diet pills, NO
Stimulants, NO
Energy drinks, NO
Smacking the monkey to pictures of Courtney Cox, as needed :D

Here's your schedule:

Monday 1-3 hours cardio
Tuesday 1-hour weights, 30 minutes light cardio
Wedsnesday 1-3 hours cardio
Thursday 1-hour weights, 30 minutes light cardio
Friday 1-3 hours cardio
Saturday 1-2 hours cardio
Sunday rest

One day a week you get to eat whatever you want....NO

Any questions?
 
About the cardio and fat burning thing, I don't think that's the case The body will burn mostly fat with low intensity, but if you go high intensity it will burn more sugar because the anaerobic pathways run almost exclusively on sugar, but fat is still being burned, and even tough the % fat of the total calories burned go down, the total calories burned go up, so in some cases, you burn just as much fat, it's just not as high of a % as with low intensity cardio.

Also, you can discuss whether how much fat you burn during exercise plays an important role or if the important thing is just how many calories.

And when you first gained muscle and lost fat, wasn't that at the start of you getting seriously into exercise? that could explain it. And the later measurement with 0.6 decrease in BF, well, calipers aren't very accurate so you need to make room for some measurement error.

But yes, it is possible, but is it worth trying to do over just trying to lose fat and then trying to gain muscle separately?
 
Screw spanking it to courtney cox....i'll take me some scarlett johansson :D

FWIW I broke out my calipers again this morning. 2 months ago my 1 pinch measure at my waist was 24 millimeters. Today it was 16 mm. Both were in the AM just after waking up, similar levels of hydration, done by me, in the same exact spot on my waistline. So I've dropped somewhere around 4% BF using an inaccurate means of calculating it. I know the 9 point would be better, but thats damn hard to do by yourself.
 
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you can't really tell how much BF you've dropped from calipers.. specially not with just one measurement. IMO, calipers are great for seeing if the fat right under your skin at the area you are measuring is decreasing or not. I don't see the point in calculating it into a BF%, that's just a number.
 
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