Confused, on a cut no milk? Low carbs??

[Karky]

Years of courses in nutrition and diabetes. Also, I said prolonged Ketosis. In that case, the body produces much higher levels of acetone, which is not only dangerous to the central nervous system, but takes a huge toll on the kidneys and liver, like I said before. Ketones are beneficial to the heart and brain, but the kidneys and liver don't have the enzymes to metabolize Ketones over a long period.


Ketoacidosis can be deadly, plain and simple, but it's basically only associated with Type I Diabetics and alcoholics.

interesting. So very high levels of acetone are dangeoraus to the CNS? How?
And how are ketones benificial to the heart and brain? By benificial I assume you mean they have some sort of advantage over glucose (which I assume is the "regular" fuel)

Also, when you say that the kidneys and livers don't have the enzymes. Can you elaborate? What about the enzymes changes as duration of ketosis continues? Enzymes aren't used up in the body, they remain after the process is completed, so I'm a bit confused.

Sorry for asking a lot of questions, but this is interesting stuff and there is so much different information out there that I don't know what to believe.

 

[Chillen]

My point basically is that manipulating carbohydrates can be a powerful asset to ones fitness goals.


We have persons on this forum that come in all sorts of shapes and sizes, some are healthy, some are not, and some have medical complications that have to be considered when placed on a diet (really?--->a no brainer. Oh! my gosh! , LOL. )

I manipulate my carbohydrates (all the time), and have entered Ketogenesis more than once. Even with a very low carb diet (trying to enter ketogenesis, and empty my glucose storage), I hit the iron, and I hit it heavy (why? this is where I am assisting in reducing my glucose storage), when trying to drop a few BF percents). And, yes its not very long. And, yes, this is taxing even on a young man, let alone one near 50 years old.

Last......."thorough physical exam?"

ROCK-ON healthy.

One does things..........wisely, with knowing how they respond to manipulation in diet.





Happy Thanksgiving to all that celebrate it.

Best wishes,


Chillen

 

[i_love_muscle]

I'm well aware of the problems prolonged ketotic states can induce in the human body.
This mini-article attests to a few problems that can crop up, depending on the individual:

There are many academic sources that outline kidney and liver damage during prolonged ketosis, however, these studies are all being done on non-humans.

This paper addresses the CNS issues observed on rats (what else?) with ketosis:

But this paper has studied different neurotransmitters on ketotic diets and thinks it helps with certain neurotransmitters (mostly for epilepsy). Go down to "Cellular mechanisms underlying the neuroprotective activity of the ketogenic diet":


The problem with trying to find out relevant information is that (for obvious reasons) scientists aren't testing on physically uncompromised average adults on a ketotic diet.

 

[Chillen]

I'm well aware of the problems prolonged ketotic states can induce in the human body.
This mini-article attests to a few problems that can crop up, depending on the individual:

There are many academic sources that outline kidney and liver damage during prolonged ketosis, however, these studies are all being done on non-humans.

This paper addresses the CNS issues observed on rats (what else?) with ketosis:

But this paper has studied different neurotransmitters on ketotic diets and thinks it helps with certain neurotransmitters (mostly for epilepsy). Go down to "Cellular mechanisms underlying the neuroprotective activity of the ketogenic diet":


The problem with trying to find out relevant information is that (for obvious reasons) scientists aren't testing on physically uncompromised average adults on a ketotic diet.

Lets not forget, eggs were bad once too.

But, now not so sure.



Oh......wait until next week, things may change again.


I had to say that, sorry.......LOL


Best wishes

Chillen

 

[Chillen]

Just being in "sinc" with yourself and your diet, and how it responds.

Let me give an example.

Today, I am lowering my carb-intake (I am going to DIE! ), tweaking my calories slightly lower, and have an intense Lower workout scheduled today.

2morrow, (knowing myself), I will be in a "more tolerant position" with an increased carbohydrate intake, and an increased calorie intake, and then the next day, I can approximate (with accuracy--without even hitting the scale) what my weight will be (this isn't the first year around T-day, I have done this).

I know my body works in a "trend", and this minor disruption messes it all up. A matter of fact I will double my surplus that I normally take in on T-day. Sure I could just leave a certain diet plan in place and eat normally, and not do it. But, I do want to eat more than usual, and set myself up to do so, and you do it through manipulation of diet and exercise. And, the things I eat are still within in my lifestyle change plan I set a long time ago.


Manipulation of diet is a beautiful thing.

Personally, Ketogenesis, IS NOT an unhealthy state for me to attempt to be in from time to time (as my trips to the doctor--to determine whether I am or am not in ketosis)--has proved to me.

Additionally, again, its not a "one size fits all".

Far too many variables.


Best wishes

Chillen

 

[i_love_muscle]

Lets not forget, eggs were bad once too.

But, now not so sure.



Oh......wait until next week, things may change again.


I had to say that, sorry.......LOL


Best wishes

Chillen

And depending on what you read, they still are

But I like 'em! And I'm a gonna eat 'em raw

Everybody's body is a bit different, so we all have to tailor our diets to how our own bodies react

 

[illiniphase4]

And, again, you can live (and be healthy) without carbohydrates, as there is "really" no requirement for it as I stated in my previous post.

Kinda true... unfortunately removing carbs altogether also removes a lot of micro-nutrient sources, so supplementation becomes a requirement.

 

[i_love_muscle]

I think 0gms carbs is a little excessive. Most ketogenic diets let you eat 50gms of carbs per day, so why reduce it to zero when you can derive the benefits of the ketotic diet on 50gms/day? There's more flexibility in that diet as well, and it's a little easier on your body, too.

 

[Chillen]

Kinda true... unfortunately removing carbs altogether also removes a lot of micro-nutrient sources, so supplementation becomes a requirement.

Some parts of this thread just nails how important the diet is.

There are "risks" in a lot of things we take for granted. Such as simply the types of foods we eat, which over time have more drastic effects than simply attempting to go into Ketosis once in a while.

I am just one of THOUSANDS of people within fitness, that manipulate the almighty carb (smartly coupled with proper eating habits)...at the tight time......at the right goal position....to attempt to solicit a favorable bodily response, and as healthy as ever.

Believe me when I tell you I tried sand blasting calorie cycles and corresponding variable deficits, and manipulating fitness activities when I first tried to dip below 9% BF. I never had to manipulate carbohydrates above 9% BF. I could eat a healthy volume of carbohydrates (of any type, at any time, and even before bed ), and lose weight, as long as a deficit was present.

I tried 3 months, and got no where (make this explanation extremely short), but when I lowered carbohydrates (around 30 grams--and this level was determined by me, for an "educated reason", and one of them was "speed" in glucose depletion when considering fitness activities), and adjoined it with cyclic calorie ranges and deficits, the game played became completely different, and I dropped the body fat I wanted, and it simply worked (again over simplifying what I did).

I react strong to a manipulation of carbohydrates. I also get rather strong symptoms, but I handle them cause' I tough like dat', and want my goal, and know its a "temporary condition".

Drinking plenty of water and taking vitamins are of course on "my personal diet" menu when attempting to go into ketosis.

I generally mess around with the normal numbers needed (for a atypical day), and then add in a base frame of what is expended in weight training (understand there are many variables involved, and its an "approximate figure"), and come up with an "over-all need approximate total for carbs".

This can give a "general idea" how I expend them without training but through normal biological function, and expend them with training along side normal functioning expenditure.

Add in approximate glucose storage calories, the target carb line (say 50g) per day, and I can fairly deduce (for myself) when the glucose bucket "should approximately" empty, which would tell me (at least in personal numbers) how close I should be in entering ketosis (over simplifying version). If its wrong, I tweak something, eh?

I agree if one is in the correct goal position, one should eat at the higher carb number IF this will net the person fat loss that was troublesome before (not water loss).

When lowering carbs, and one may not even have to attempt to go into Ketosis. The higher number should be tried. If not, lower it some more, and keep tweaking (and tweaking the "types" of carbs, and this assumes deficit dieting and manipulating exercises didn't work, and other like attempts exhausted).

These 20g, 30g, 40g, and 50g, of carbs float around a lot. For some this could be the carb operating range to enter ketosis (dependent on factors such as training volume, such as how many sets and reps, intensity, and frequency of training, etc). But for others, it can be higher, it simply can depend on personal surrounding factors and simply their personal biological processes.

One has to read, and get educated.

Some attempt to do a Keto "type" diet (and there are many variants out there), without really understanding the "process" of the diet, and when things don't workout as planned, they do not know what to do, or what to manipulate to make a change; get frustrated, and motivation dies.

Manipulate the numbers and see what happens. I like my carbs (except when I am lowering them ). If it means I can eat 100g and meet ketosis, its just common sense to eat at that range, if it works for the person. If one thinks about it, the right person "could" enter Ketosis with 100g, if the volume, intensity, and frequency, of training "was enough", and considering nature of employment, and the biological base needs in the equation.


ROCK ON ALL!


Best wishes

Chillen