Opps, I did it again!!!!

[BikeSwimLaugh]

Some of you might recall that some months ago, after hard work & diet, I actually gained some weight and was quite upset about it.

Many people suggested I needed to add some calories and my deficit was too extreme...that I was in starvation mode and my body was clinging to fat, etc. Forum members, trainers, many people swore I had to dial-in some more calories to lose weight......

Well...I started eating more for breakfast (just before my workouts) and since I do my workout for long periods I ate a bit between different exercises and I certainly ate just after working-out as well. Yeah, I pre-fed and fed my exercise and then I went lean into the evening keeping the carbs low.

I felt leaner, I looked leaner, my face appeared thinner, my trainer said she could see the difference, my arms looked more cut....I was happy, but given my history I was scared to get on the scale.

Today I saw my nutritionist...first thing he did was look at my arms and say "Dude...your arms look huge, and your chest & shoulders, sheesh: what have you been doing"????

So I told him how I was eating a bit more but timing it before my workouts and just after my workouts. That I've added the butterfly stroke to my swimming and can now rip it all the way across the pool, and I've been lifting heavier and using the energy blah blah blah.

So....he pulls-out the body-fat calipers and goes to the new spots we test (where what fat remains). Good news: I've dropped 1.1% in body-fat%. He does the pinching 2 more times to get an accurate picture; yep....I've certainly lost fat, you can see it on the digital calipers and visually see the cutting on my body most everywhere.

Then I get on the scale.....oh great: I'VE GAINED 3.5 POUNDS!!!!

Now I'm up to 240, isn't that wonderful? All that eating just fueled my endomorph/mesomorph ability to stack-on muscle. Fat? Yeah..I lost some fat, but evidently I've yet again gained enough muscle to offset the fat-loss on the scale.

I don't know if I should celebrate or scream.....

My nutritionist says I need to cut calories way down and stop lifting heavy, and not to push the HR over 140 when I do my cardio: give the body no reason to add muscle and cut the cals to burn the fat.

So I've gained 3.5 pounds in my weight-loss program, let's everyone congratulate me, I'm the Greatest Gainer Winner!

Ya know, that gym actually bolted the scale to the floor....I was seriously gonna throw it through the f-in window! :SaiyanSmilie_anim:

 

[g8r80]

BSL, why do you giving a flying crapola that you gained weight if your % body fat went down?!!! The latter is much more important, isn't it?

 

[tjl]

Unless you are trying to compete in a sport or do something else where extra weight (as opposed to extra fat) is a disadvantage, why worry about gaining (muscle) weight when you are losing fat?

 

[Wrangell]

So....he pulls-out the body-fat calipers and goes to the new spots we test (where what fat remains). Good news: I've dropped 1.1% in body-fat%. He does the pinching 2 more times to get an accurate picture; yep....I've certainly lost fat, you can see it on the digital calipers and visually see the cutting on my body most everywhere.

What is your bf% based on the calipers ?

And, you'd mentioned in some earlier posts that you had some doubts as to the accuracy of some of these caliper bf% scores you'd had done in the past. And that'd you'd scheduled a DEXA bf% test to see how it compared to your caliper scores.

What did your DEXA bf% test say your body fat % is and how did it compare to your caliper estimates of bodyfat % ?

 

[Wrangell]

Good news: I've dropped 1.1% in body-fat%. He does the pinching 2 more times to get an accurate picture; yep....I've certainly lost fat, you can see it on the digital calipers and visually see the cutting on my body most everywhere.

Then I get on the scale.....oh great: I'VE GAINED 3.5 POUNDS!!!!

I lost some fat, but evidently I've yet again gained enough muscle to offset the fat-loss on the scale.

I don't know if I should celebrate or scream....

I'd have to agree with tjl & g8r80.

If you can lose fat and add muscle mass at the same time, isn't this a good thing ? Celebrate !

The whole idea is to focus on losing lose body fat and not necessarily on focusing on drops in your overall body weight ( possibly fat and muscle ) - i.e focus on how many lbs. you've dropped - I would think. In other words, who cares how much you weigh, so long as you hit your body fat % target. How far away are you from your body fat% target anyway ?

btw - how many weeks did it take you gain 3.5 pounds of muscle ? And how many pounds of fat - i.e a drop of 1.1% bf - did you drop during that time frame ?

 

[tribal1]

I did post in BSL's log as I was confused about his "progress".

 

[Dallen]

I'm not exactly sure how you define success.

I'm a little surprised your trainer actually allows you to view the scale. Obviously you've made progress in terms of bf% and appearance.

I'm also a little surprised that you got mad about the scale when you only view it some of the times. The 3.5 pounds could easily be water weight and/or food weight. I recommend going to the bathroom before going on a scale.

I say get a new trainer. He/She is obviously leading you in the wrong direction. One minute it's "Increase this" then the next is "Don't lift, eat less, blah blah." Next time it's going to be, "Don't breathe, don't eat ever."

 

[Kraken]

Damn I thought this was a Britney Spears thread. Thanks a lot BSL:bncry:

 

[Phate89]

I don't understand why you are upset

You gained muscle, lost fat and look more cut.

Would you rather lose muscle and fat and end up skinny fat just to see the scale go down?

 

[BikeSwimLaugh]

Kraken....LOL, thought that'd get ya!

Unless you are trying to compete in a sport or do something else where extra weight (as opposed to extra fat) is a disadvantage, why worry about gaining (muscle) weight when you are losing fat?

Actually, I'm trying to pick-up running and I can feel the weight pounding on my frame when I run. The little legs n' lungs guy next to me is bounding away like a gazelle fast & effortlessly and I'm lugging all this heft around. So yeah, I am trying to compete in a sport where this weight IS messing me up! Go ahead and strap 50 pounds onto any runner and see how they like running with it. Dude: I'm 5' 8" and now 240 pounds, by BMI index I'm morbidly obese!!!!!

BSL, why do you giving a flying crapola that you gained weight if your % body fat went down?!!! The latter is much more important, isn't it?

Technically yes, it's "great" to gain muscle while losing body-fat...my nutritionist thinks it's awesome, but I'm just not feeling the same way.

Okay, I know this is going to sound very shallow & all-wrong, but what's the first thing people ask you when you've been dieting and look better? "So....how much weight have you lost?". I'm soooo sick of having to preempt my response with the "muscle weighs more then fat" and seemingly offer an excuse for why the number isn't impressive. As much as we dismiss it, the weight & scale are part of the equation.

What is your bf% based on the calipers ?

And, you'd mentioned in some earlier posts that you had some doubts as to the accuracy of some of these caliper bf% scores you'd had done in the past. And that'd you'd scheduled a DEXA bf% test to see how it compared to your caliper scores.

What did your DEXA bf% test say your body fat % is and how did it compare to your caliper estimates of bodyfat % ?

I was hoping you'd chime-in and this is partially why I posted this out in this section....

I realize this will sound rather obvious, but the body-fat calipers only measure the body-fat in the areas they are applied to. When I first started seeing my nutritionist he was pinching my navel and my chest. Measurements started at ~24% and eventually went as low as 11.8%. I'm sure you recall how I myself even proclaimed there was no way I was that low...but it's accurate to say that in that area I was/am. We then started using other areas, in particular where the fat remained: on my back/side just above the waist (love-handle flab) and on the saggy-side of my chest: these numbers came in at 29.1%...so this speaks volumes for the use & accuracy of the body-fat calipers! In general, I'm probably overall about 15.5-16.5%.

The calipers are consistent. The unit takes 3 samples (wherever you apply it) and then comes-up with an average. We do this 3 times to get an average of the average. Now I realize it can't tell you your overall body-fat%, just the body-fat % in the areas it's applied to. I was under the impression it took from a specific area and then used weight, height, etc to project an overall number.

Have I done the DEXA yet? No....still haven't made an appointment, just been busy.

I know what you guys are trying to tell me....and part of the reason I'm posting this is to hear the reassurance that I'm not delusionally deceiving myself by feeling okay with the weight-gain. I know weight can vary, but you have to remember the last time I was in, I had gained about 5 pounds...the trend is upwards...it's very hard to feel good about your fitness progress and my efforts to lose weight and get in shape when I see the scale going up. It had been 5-6 weeks since getting on the scale, it was time.

As for the cut-calorie plan, Alan wants me to do this just for one week as an experiment. I guess it's because I got too freaked-out that my waist looked smaller and I felt leaner...yet I gained weight.

 

[Kraken]

You're like a woman with your weight. LOL

I've only lost 16 lbs but my BF went from over 20% to 13%. So from here on out stop being a friggin tool. You got that?

 

[tjl]

Actually, I'm trying to pick-up running and I can feel the weight pounding on my frame when I run. The little legs n' lungs guy next to me is bounding away like a gazelle fast & effortlessly and I'm lugging all this heft around. So yeah, I am trying to compete in a sport where this weight IS messing me up! Go ahead and strap 50 pounds onto any runner and see how they like running with it. Dude: I'm 5' 8" and now 240 pounds, by BMI index I'm morbidly obese!!!!!

But if your body fat percentage is low (if it is around the 15-16% range you later state, that is fine for general health reasons), and all other proxies for body fat (e.g. waist / height ratio) are fine, then you're not morbidly obese in terms of health risks.

I can see if you want to be a runner why you may be concerned about extra weight even if the weight is not excess body fat. But if that is the case, should you change your workout plan to optimize for running? Or are you thinking of being a triathlete?

Okay, I know this is going to sound very shallow & all-wrong, but what's the first thing people ask you when you've been dieting and look better? "So....how much weight have you lost?". I'm soooo sick of having to preempt my response with the "muscle weighs more then fat" and seemingly offer an excuse for why the number isn't impressive. As much as we dismiss it, the weight & scale are part of the equation.

If you are answering the question from a person who thinks mainly in terms of weight, answer the amount of flabby waistline you lost. People sensitive to the number on the scale tend to also be sensitive of how tightly their clothes fit around their waist.

I know what you guys are trying to tell me....and part of the reason I'm posting this is to hear the reassurance that I'm not delusionally deceiving myself by feeling okay with the weight-gain. I know weight can vary, but you have to remember the last time I was in, I had gained about 5 pounds...the trend is upwards...it's very hard to feel good about your fitness progress and my efforts to lose weight and get in shape when I see the scale going up.

You know, this paragraph reads like it came from a woman who has bought into the (common among women) "losing weight is the only thing that matters" mentality. Some such women periodically show up with newbie posts on these forums, usually claiming that they are "fat" even though their stated height and weight give a BMI of around 19, and asking for tips on how to lose weight, even though it would be healthier for them to gain muscle weight.

 

[BikeSwimLaugh]

I'm taking this to my journal. I put this out here in the open so people, like myself, who diet and don't see weight-loss can see that others deal with it and the reality of things....

 

[Wrangell]

these numbers came in at 29.1%...so this speaks volumes for the use & accuracy of the body-fat calipers!

Dude: I'm 5' 8" and now 240 pounds

In general, I'm probably overall about 15.5-16.5%.

Have I done the DEXA yet? No....still haven't made an appointment, just been busy.

The little legs n' lungs guy next to me is bounding away like a gazelle fast & effortlessly and I'm lugging all this heft around.

Since you seem to think your caliper measures are all over the map and prone to a significant degree of error, then perhaps you should get that DEXA done asap - not only to put your mind at ease a bit as to what your ' true ' body fat % likely is, but to provide you with a benchmark from which to assess the relative accuracy of any future caliper estimates you may have done.

And, if you can make time to exercise with a trainer, you can make the time to book a DEXA appointment IMO - book one today. In fact, I'd have a caliper and DEXA test done on the same day and then see how the 2 results you get compare.

But, assuming you are in fact around 16% body fat, even if you slashed down to a very very lean 10% body fat, you're still going to be around 225 lbs. or more - and will likely never have to go significantly below that IMO.

So, it is what it is, and even at 5'8" & 225, you're still relatively short and stocky - and ( as you put it in another post ) - you're built more like a linebacker than an ideal endurance runner. Once again, comparing yourself to some guy who runs like a " gazelle " is meaningless IMO - everyone is built differently.

You really have to stop assessing your health and fitness goals in terms of what others can do and how others look and instead focus on those goals that are appropriate for you, your body type and your personal circumstances overall IMO.

 

[mdawson2]

although I think your program was a great success i wish i could gain muscle and lose bf% like that, if you really want to lose fat and muscle start running long distance everyday and you'll develop more of a runners body, but i think you should stick to your plan now i also dont suggest lowering your cals again if you really want to change just do more cardio

 

[Wrangell]

although I think your program was a great success i wish i could gain muscle and lose bf% like that, if you really want to lose fat and muscle start running long distance everyday and you'll develop more of a runners body, but i think you should stick to your plan now i also dont suggest lowering your cals again if you really want to change just do more cardio

What do you mean by a " runners body " ?

 

[tribal1]

Perhaps he means this :-

 

[BikeSwimLaugh]

Wrangell, Tribal & Mdawson....all very good info, especially (and as usual) Wrangell's.

You're right, my body-type is what it is and the best I can do is make the most of what I have and be happy. In the end, it's the cholesterol, blood-pressure and health aspects I should be concerned about. It's just tough because the last quarter-century of my life I've been chasing the notion of "losing weight" and it's just odd to celebrate progress while the scale increases....you know what I mean. Ultimately I'm chasing better health & fitness, not a number on the scale.

Real quick: the body-fat calipers DO measure body-fat% but relative only to the area that you pinch. You're biceps or calves would probably come in very lean, while the love-handles (or looser regions where fat is generally apparent) come in much higher. My navel is pinching-in around 12% whereas the love-handle "kidneys" are up at 28%. What it comes down to is that the calipers only give you the body-fat% reading at the locations you apply them, only water-tanks, DEXA and other all-body-encompassing measurements can project a more accurate picture of your total body-fat%. Alan keeps joking around about dissection, lol.

I've heard the water-tank isn't very accurate for many reasons. It can't account for bone-density and other factors. From what I gather DEXA is pretty much the most accurate means short of dissection.

The thing is...I'm a VERY detailed-oriented person. I always wear a Heart-Rate Monitor and love to keep track of my total calories burned. I look at calories, % of calories of fat burned, time, etc. I like stats. When I swim, I use a lap-counter and I keep track of my pace. Generally I won't leave the gym until my cal-counter says I've done 2,000

Given this A-type personality & approach, it should come as no surprise that I track weight, body-fat%, measurements and all sorts of stuff. That said, I think it's time I just stop looking at the scale. Like I said, I keep looking leaner and figure I'll see a drop...and the disappointment follows.