G8r80's training / dieting / cycling / log

[NBS 4life]

Hey NBS, I was hoping you'd chime in.. Someone else told me about tucking the chin to the shoulder and I tried it yesterday. I'll try it again tomorrow in the ocean.

Thanks

Awesome let me know how it works.

Lots of people that I used to train will only breathed bi laterally when in the open water and were real heavy nose blowers.

 

[g8r80]

Are you needing to rotate that much because you are that much out of breath that you need a "big gulp of air", or do you just naturally rotate further because its not as comfortable? You should only rotate so that half your mask or goggles are in the water, and half are out. More than that and you'll loose your stroke. I'd be willing to bet that one of the reasons you are needing to rotate so much is that the arm out front (the right arm) while you are breathing (on your left side) is dropping as you breathe or that you start your pull too early. Try and keep it out (like you're lying on it as a pillow) as you breathe. Start the pull as your head returns back to the water.

Yes, I do run out of air and as I do, I start rotating farther to give me more "air time". I know I should only come up as far as necessary to get my mouth out of the water but that doesn't give me enough time to breath in.

If you are going to use a wetsuit and you are swimming purely for tri use-then there is no reason you really need to train with a kick. I know a lot of tri friends who train with a buoy between their legs the entire workout because they intend to race with their wetsuit and it mimics the buoyancy. The suit will keep your legs up enough that you will hardly have to kick. It might be worth it to train this way so your upper body gets used to pulling the load. You'll also save your legs for your ride and run. The swim is such a small part of the entire race that your goal is just to make it through in the middle of the pack, with more than enough gas left in the tank. You will make it up in the rest of the race. If you spend your wad on the swim you will have an agonizing rest of your race no matter how strong you are as a biker or runner.

To followup on this, I do use a pull buoy often and I am more efficient and can go much longer before getting winded.

I haven't been back to my swim coach since my surgery and I want to work on a few things before I go back to him. Here are the problem areas that I have and my plans to work on them:

1. Breathing. My main plan to improve on this is just practice practice practice. But I also do a drill where I swim against the wall pushing into the wall and practice beathing. I do this for 10 minutes at a time or until I get so dizzy or bored that I have to stop.

2. Arm strength. Are there any particular drills to build up the arm and lat strength? I think for my size I am underdeveloped here. If my muscles weren't getting so overworked, they wouldn't demand so much oxygen and I could go longer.

I will forego the kicking drills and balance drills for now.

Thanks

 

[sparrow]

Yes, I do run out of air and as I do, I start rotating farther to give me more "air time". I know I should only come up as far as necessary to get my mouth out of the water but that doesn't give me enough time to breath in.

Do you notice if you are exhaling completely? Often breathlessness in the water is due to actually not getting rid of all your air in time for that next breath. Its like adding extra air to an already inflated balloon.

To followup on this, I do use a pull buoy often and I am more efficient and can go much longer before getting winded.


1. Breathing. My main plan to improve on this is just practice practice practice. But I also do a drill where I swim against the wall pushing into the wall and practice beathing. I do this for 10 minutes at a time or until I get so dizzy or bored that I have to stop..

This is good. If you haven't already, try a kickboard out front and do a few laps of kick with the board straight out holding onto the bottom. Put your face in the water as you kick. Your legs will use a lot of oxygen and you will be forced to exhale completely (bubbles) before you get another breath or else you will go breathless right away. Then you're also getting in a few extra laps while you're practicing Do you have fins?

2. Arm strength. Are there any particular drills to build up the arm and lat strength? I think for my size I am underdeveloped here. If my muscles weren't getting so overworked, they wouldn't demand so much oxygen and I could go longer.Thanks

Yes you need to look up "sculling". there are a few underwater clips on YouTube. Front scull is a great one to do each time you swim,. Mid-scull is next, and "finish" skull is last. Front scull should be the one you rely on the most for what you're looking for. Once you get good at it, you can scull with the paddles you use also. You'll actually get sore from these!

 

[g8r80]

Thanks Sparrow,

I have often thought that my breathing woes are because I don't exhale completely, but it is hard for me to know this. I think I'm exhaling completely.

Thanks for the tip on sculling; I had not heard of that.

Yes, I do have fins. I generally have to use either fins or a pull buoy in fresh water, otherwise it gets ugly fast.

Ya know, I do want to become a quality pool swimmer, but developing a kick is gonna take time and is not a high priority for me. After I have made certain accomplishments on the bike (40K tt in less than an hour) and the run (10K in under 50 minutes), I will come back to the kicking. As for now, I will rely on tris that don't require a good kick, i.e., wetsuit legals.

But, I will do that kicking drill to practice my breathing.

Thanks again

 

[g8r80]

The tires on my mtb only had 17 and 27 psi in them - no wonder I was so slow! I pumped them up to the full 45 psi Biked 14 miles on the mtb in 53 minutes (16mph) which was considerably faster than my previous efforts.

T2: 3 minutes. That wasn't nearly enough! How these guys can jam out of there in 1 minutes is beyond me!!!

Ran 3 miles. The first lap, 1.5 miles, was no fun! Shins hurt, quads hurt, ankles hurt, in fact, it would be easier to list the things that didn't hurt... Had to walk through about half of the first lap and it took me 19 minutes. I gutted out the second lap, stopping only once, briefly, for a time of 15:40.

So, my bike + T2 + run = 91 minutes. The 440 yard wetsuit swim will take me another 12 minutes (2:30 min/ 100 yards + (4) 30-second rests (maybe I can trim this down) + 3 minutes for T1 means that I could expect a Sprint tri time of 1:46. Now that is for the fat tire category; if I rode my road bike, I could shave at least 15 minutes off that time, which would bring me down to 1:30 which would be my goal for my first sprint tri.

 

[sparrow]

yeah that drill isn't for kicking, its for the arms/back so if you want to use a buoy instead of kick you can. Its better to kick for the breathing drill because it will somewhat mimic the oxygen uptake your body needs when your arms are actually moving. If you want to use fins, you can. I'm not a big kicker either. I don't rely on my legs for ANY sort of propulsion. Course a better kick can make you a better swimmer, but I don't think its the be all end all. There are a few olympians who hardly kick even in their olympic event! If that makes you feel any better

 

[g8r80]

Thanks Sparrow. I'm gonna print off your last few replies and take them with me to the Y today or tomorrow.

My swim coach said, "Go out with your arms but come in with your legs", so I can appreciate the kick but after doing a measly sprint brick yesterday, my legs took me a while to get going during the run. They would have been that much worse off if I had done much of a kick in the swim. I have progressed to the point where I can do the events individually, but back to back to back is wearing me down.

 

[theGOOCH]

That long distance swimming just seems wild to me. I think the most I ever did was swimming across the Great Miami River as a teenager. My mom could have killed me when she found out LOL

 

[sparrow]

Thanks Sparrow. I'm gonna print off your last few replies and take them with me to the Y today or tomorrow.

My swim coach said, "Go out with your arms but come in with your legs", so I can appreciate the kick but after doing a measly sprint brick yesterday, my legs took me a while to get going during the run. They would have been that much worse off if I had done much of a kick in the swim. I have progressed to the point where I can do the events individually, but back to back to back is wearing me down.

and really, if its a matter of saving your legs so you can still function for the rest of the race over using them to gain a few seconds on the field but be worn out the rest of the time...I'd take the former. Its really not going to make a big difference in the overall race. Don't sweat the small stuff

 

[g8r80]

Today was a very productive swimming day. I did 200 yards to start, a distance I have never gone before without a rest and is almost 1/2 the distance of my sprint tri. Thereafter, I took a 1 min. rest after each 100 yards, doing a total of 1000 yards in 40 minutes.

At 800 yards, my arms, chest and back were sore and I thought I was gonna get DOMS from this and considered cutting short the session. Then, I remembered FF and his 70.3 Ironman and thought, if he can go the distance on that, then I can certainly go this pathetic distance.

I used a pull buoy and didn't kick. To show how dense I am, uh, I mean, how high my specific gravity is, even with the pull buoy my legs are still 2' below the surface. But, with a 5mil wetsuit, they are right at the surface. So the pull buoy does not mimic wetsuit swimming to me. Afterwards my arms, chest and back were the most tired they have ever been after a 1000yd swim, so clearly this was a good muscle development exercise.

But, I was terribly disappointed in my stroke count and speed. I am gonna contact my old swim coach to help me with my stroke and forget about the body balance or kick of which I have none of either.

 

[sparrow]

has your swim coach ever said anything about your actual body position in the water when you swim? Is your head high or tucked? Do you have a natural arch in your lower back as you swim? do you hold in your abs or let them out? Some of that has to do with what position your legs are in the water.

 

[g8r80]

has your swim coach ever said anything about your actual body position in the water when you swim?

Yeah, he said my legs ride low and that I should press the buoy (as does Total Immersion) but didn't give me any specifics on how to do that.

Is your head high or tucked?

He said the waterline was right at my eyebrows which was about right. I have read elsewhere that I should be looking down and the waterline should be higher up my head. But altering my head has done nothing to raise my legs.

Do you have a natural arch in your lower back as you swim? do you hold in your abs or let them out? Some of that has to do with what position your legs are in the water.

My back doesn't have much of an arch. I don't think I suck in my abs but I haven't thought about that.

 

[sparrow]

I wholeheartedly believe the position of your legs has a lot to do with the position of your head.

Not only that but whats inbetween. If your back doesn't arch (practically forcing your abs inward) then it is going to be harder to push your butt and legs up.

The water level should be higher on your head. When I have people in my class with the water level at their eyebrows they are 1. leg sinkers 2. have NO rotation 3. have a lot of unnecessary tension in their shoulders/neck. All those problems can make swimming very NOT fun.

Push your head down into the water. Even Total Immersion will say that you should have a slight film of water that flows OVER your head as you swim through the water. That means a pretty low head position. You shouldn't look straight down-but only slightly up-about 1-2 feet in front of you on the floor of the pool. In this position it makes it easier to slightly arch your back pushing you booty to the top of the water and legs following.

I'm not sure if I asked you before but can you float face down? If you can or can't play with that. Float face down and keep your back neutral-your legs will sink. Arch your back and slightly kick your feet so your legs start to float up-they should stay (at least better than the neutral back position).

 

[g8r80]

I'm not sure if I asked you before but can you float face down? If you can or can't play with that. Float face down and keep your back neutral-your legs will sink. Arch your back and slightly kick your feet so your legs start to float up-they should stay (at least better than the neutral back position).

I cannot float face down - my legs start to sink. I will try to arch my back and lower my head and see what happens.

 

[sparrow]

I cannot float face down - my legs start to sink. I will try to arch my back and lower my head and see what happens.

just be sure not to round your back as you tuck your head. It should be slightly looking forward, just not much. You'll be doing a sort of "cat stretch" position (arched back butt up) LOL...but don't get carried away

 

[g8r80]

just be sure not to round your back as you tuck your head. It should be slightly looking forward, just not much. You'll be doing a sort of "cat stretch" position (arched back butt up) LOL...but don't get carried away

I don't think I'll resemble a sleek cat, more like a humpback whale!



YMCA day:

bench press: 115x10x3 (no giggling!)

deadlift: 135x10, 185x10, 225x10x3

Wide grip supine lat pulldowns: 100x10, 110x10, 120x10x2

Narrow grip pronate lat pulldowns: 100x10, 110x10, 120x10

Ab crunches: 25x3

Ran 1.5 miles, 15:44. Shins hurt so I came in early.

6 weeks to go to the Rochesterfest Triathlon!

 

[g8r80]

I did a mock run of my sprint triathlon on June 29 in Rochester, MN. Home of the world famous Mayo Clinic

Swim: 440 yards in 65 - 70F expected water. I swam 22 laps in my 10 yard heated (84F) pool wearing a Desoto 5mil wetsuit over a 6.5mil scuba diving farmer john wetsuit. I was burning up as you would guess!

Time: 16:00. I had to stop and float way too many times. And I was unfamiliar with swimming in a full wetsuit, something that I will have to practice. Also, I need to get the matching Desoto Bibjohn which is 5mil rather than 6.5mil and more flexible. I forgot to warm up beforehand and hit that shock sensation after about 1 minute where I start hyperventilating because my heart is not up to speed yet. All of these contributed to a slower than expected time. But the wetsuits kept me at the surface

T1: 7:00. I puttered around, struggling to get my wetsuits off, drying myself off, putting on a dry shirt, putting on socks, but, most importantly, I was still winded and needed much of this to catch my breath. What I need to realize in the future is that because I am so comfortable on the bike, I can be catching my breath even at a slow pace of 15 - 16 mph. I can easily shave 4 minutes off this time. My bodyglide arrived today but I didn't use it. I will certainly use it during the real deal.

Bike: 43 minutes. Rode the mountain bike 11.3 miles, which I think is comparable to 13 on the sprint. In hindsight, I think I can go 13 miles on the road bike a lot faster than 11.3 on the mountain bike. I think I can shave 3+ minutes off this time. To save my legs, I went easy on the last 1/2 mile and that was a big improvement over my brick the other night.

T2: 30 seconds. Because I rode the mountain bike which has old school toe clips, I was wearing running shoes and didn't change. Obviously, with a road bike, I will have to change so add 1:30 minutes to this time. But, I was not winded when I got off the bike and I would have drank on the bike if I had remembered a water bottle, so I should be hydrated for the run.

Run: 18 minutes + 15 minutes + 1 minute = 34:00. The first lap was tough; I had to stop and walk for about :30 about 4 times which cost me. At first, my calves were giving me that little twinge like they were threatening to cramp up, but didn't. During the second lap, I toughened up and applied an old cycling trick: when faced with tough conditions and monotony, I would count my revolutions on the bike. It keeps my mind involved and (somewhat) forgets the pain. I counted my breaths on the second lap and didn't have to stop and ended up with a decent, for post-surgery me, time of 10:00 miles. To make it a 5K, I added 1 minute for the additional .1 mile.

Total: Swim + T1 + Bike + T2 + Run = 1:40:30

So, if I continue to improve and get back some of my pre-surgery endurance, a 1:30 sprint tri (440yd, 13 mile, 5K) is well within my grasp.

Edit: I just noticed the bike is only 10 miles, not 13. That will cut another 9 minutes off my bike time.

 

[sparrow]

I did a mock run of my sprint triathlon on June 29 in Rochester, MN. Home of the world famous Mayo Clinic

Swim: 440 yards in 65 - 70F expected water. I swam 22 laps in my 10 yard heated (84F) pool wearing a Desoto 5mil wetsuit over a 6.5mil scuba diving farmer john wetsuit. I was burning up as you would guess!

Time: 16:00. I had to stop and float way too many times. And I was unfamiliar with swimming in a full wetsuit, something that I will have to practice. Also, I need to get the matching Desoto Bibjohn which is 5mil rather than 6.5mil and more flexible. I forgot to warm up beforehand and hit that shock sensation after about 1 minute where I start hyperventilating because my heart is not up to speed yet. All of these contributed to a slower than expected time. But the wetsuits kept me at the surface

T1: 7:00. I puttered around, struggling to get my wetsuits off, drying myself off, putting on a dry shirt, putting on socks, but, most importantly, I was still winded and needed much of this to catch my breath. What I need to realize in the future is that because I am so comfortable on the bike, I can be catching my breath even at a slow pace of 15 - 16 mph. I can easily shave 4 minutes off this time. My bodyglide arrived today but I didn't use it. I will certainly use it during the real deal.

Bike: 43 minutes. Rode the mountain bike 11.3 miles, which I think is comparable to 13 on the sprint. In hindsight, I think I can go 13 miles on the road bike a lot faster than 11.3 on the mountain bike. I think I can shave 3+ minutes off this time. To save my legs, I went easy on the last 1/2 mile and that was a big improvement over my brick the other night.

T2: 30 seconds. Because I rode the mountain bike which has old school toe clips, I was wearing running shoes and didn't change. Obviously, with a road bike, I will have to change so add 1:30 minutes to this time. But, I was not winded when I got off the bike and I would have drank on the bike if I had remembered a water bottle, so I should be hydrated for the run.

Run: 18 minutes + 15 minutes + 1 minute = 34:00. The first lap was tough; I had to stop and walk for about :30 about 4 times which cost me. At first, my calves were giving me that little twinge like they were threatening to cramp up, but didn't. During the second lap, I toughened up and applied an old cycling trick: when faced with tough conditions and monotony, I would count my revolutions on the bike. It keeps my mind involved and (somewhat) forgets the pain. I counted my breaths on the second lap and didn't have to stop and ended up with a decent, for post-surgery me, time of 10:00 miles. To make it a 5K, I added 1 minute for the additional .1 mile.

Total: Swim + T1 + Bike + T2 + Run = 1:40:30

So, if I continue to improve and get back some of my pre-surgery endurance, a 1:30 sprint tri (440yd, 13 mile, 5K) is well within my grasp.

Edit: I just noticed the bike is only 10 miles, not 13. That will cut another 9 minutes off my bike time.

Good job! I had to laugh at your swim simulation You also might just want to wear what you're going to wear biking under that wetsuit so you don't have to waste time changing into a dry shirt. Its just going to get all sweaty anyway, you might as well drip dry

Maybe you could practice running without socks? they take way too much time to put on wet feet.

make sure you warm up before you get to swim! do something to get your heartrate up so you don't have that shock to your system a minute in. In open water with that feeling you might panic!

sounds like a fun workout

 

[flyinfree]

there is time to register, it is next Friday night and it is gunna be fun!
Carolyn will be volunteering. This is your chance to have my wife 'serve' you~!



Beach Running, Trail Running, Crawling, Jumping, Stream Crossing, & a Sunset - all within Tampa City limits.

The trail and beach run will be approx. 3.3 miles of joy. There will be a number of challenges along the way to slow you down and wear you out. The gorgeous course will make you feel like you have left Tampa Bay and have landed on an island - Picnic Island.

After the race will be a great post-race feast by Affordable Catering with watermelon, pasta salad, hotdogs, ice-cream and much more. We have a DJ playing your favorite tunes while you run and enjoy the sunset.

FF

 

[flyinfree]

p.s. you are hitting it hard man!