Sport Diet help. Mreik, anyone?

Sport Fitness
K

Karky

2
So I've been doing the low carb thing for a while now. But I don't know if I'm getting the progress I want. Strength wise I am fine, that's going up, but the size is what has me concerned. It is a bit hard to tell about the weight, since it goes up and down. But I haven't had any noticeable weight gain. I'm eating 4000 cals and I don't think I could manage much more.. I've been going at it for some time now, so I figured maybe it is time to try another approach.

Here's the weight and measurement log:

Hips (which is probably the glutes) seem to be gaining steadily, but nothing else.

I was thinking about adding some more carb meals, primarily PreWO PWO shake and PPWO. on training days. Think that will work? And otherwise, I'll eat fat and protein.

But what about the days I don't train? how many carbs you think I need then? Also, should I bother to separate carbs and fat? And don't eat any fat in my carb meals at all?

Also, I've got protein and fat sources cover. But what carb sources should I focus on eating?
 
You make it seem like its a game, the body isnt that simple.

By the way 100kg, your a beast!
 
What do you mean I make it seem like a game? I'm trying to figure out a diet approach that works good for me, What other way to do that than to try new things?
 
oh and the first 103kg you can pretty much ignore. it was taken with another scale than the one I've got here.. it's a bit fishy.
 
I read up on some Berardi articles at T nation
TESTOSTERONE NATION - The Science of Nutrient Timing I
TESTOSTERONE NATION - The Science of Nutrient Timing II

Basically, energy phase is while training, so sip a P/C drink with 1/2 ratio
Anabolic phase, right after drink with 1/2 ratio PC
Grow phase 4-6 hours after that with more like a 1/1 ratio
then the rest of the day low carb and veggies.

So no carb prewo, but a carb drink during the workout, I've never tired that before, but I know many swear by it.
I'm a bit skeptical to eating so many carbs 6 hours after workout. Maybe do one more carb meal, like chicken and brown rice after my PWO shake then start with the P+C again? What do you think?

And again, what the hell do I do on my off days? :p
 
Karky said:
So I've been doing the low carb thing for a while now. But I don't know if I'm getting the progress I want. Strength wise I am fine, that's going up, but the size is what has me concerned. It is a bit hard to tell about the weight, since it goes up and down. But I haven't had any noticeable weight gain. I'm eating 4000 cals and I don't think I could manage much more.. I've been going at it for some time now, so I figured maybe it is time to try another approach.
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Of those 4,000 calories, how many of those calories are from carbs ?

Also, what is your estimate of your maintenance calories - and how much of a surplus are you over that amount ?

Karky said:
I was thinking about adding some more carb meals, primarily PreWO PWO shake and PPWO. on training days. Think that will work? And otherwise, I'll eat fat and protein.
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Well, carbs provide most the energy you need for weight training and provide a good portion of your cardio energy as well. So if you want to train with optimal performance in mind, I'd think extra carbs would be a good thing generally speaking.

Karky said:
But what about the days I don't train? how many carbs you think I need then? Also, should I bother to separate carbs and fat? And don't eat any fat in my carb meals at all?
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Why not have some carbs, protein and fat at every meal ?

Karky said:
Also, I've got protein and fat sources cover. But what carb sources should I focus on eating?
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Fruits & vegetables breads primarily, along with breads, grains, pasta etc.
 
Karky said:
I'm a bit skeptical to eating so many carbs 6 hours after workout. Maybe do one more carb meal, like chicken and brown rice after my PWO shake then start with the P+C again? What do you think?

And again, what the hell do I do on my off days? :p
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Why is that ?
 
Karky said:
because I don't want fat gain. We've been over this in the other thread, no need to do it again.
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Well, if you're trying to bulk and pack on as much muscle as you can, you're going to put on a some fat along the way I'd think - i.e that is if you want optimize gains in muscle. Obviously, the goal is more one of trying to minimize fat gain while maximizing muscle gain.

The amount of fat will obviously depend on the magnitude of your surplus in calories over your maintenance - which is why I asked you earlier how much a surplus your 4,000 calories a day was over you maintenance.
 
how am I suppose to know how much over my maintenance it is? there is no way to figure that out.

Fat gain will also depend on how you eat, not just how many calories. I guess what I should have said was minimize fat gain, but I thought that was understood.
 
Karky said:
how am I suppose to know how much over my maintenance it is? there is no way to figure that out.
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What I meant was, ballpark your ' maintenance calories ' - i.e incorporating BMR, RMR, lifestyle, cardio training and weight training calorie estimates - using any of the various ' maintenance calorie ' calculators that are out there.

Then bump that estimate up by some amount - i.e 15%-20%, 500 calories etc. - to help in adding weight, and then see how this compares to your current intake of 4,000 calories a day.

That's all I'm saying.

Karky said:
Fat gain will also depend on how you eat, not just how many calories. I guess what I should have said was minimize fat gain, but I thought that was understood.
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I think we both agree, that for most otherwise healthy gym rats , the only way you're going to gain fat is to consume calories in excess of what your body's requirements are.

When you " how you eat " can play a role in fat gain - what do you mean by that exactly ?

Not sure I follow.
 
I am going to go with a different approach. Since you haven't gained a much it is safe to say that you are not eating enough. So start eating more.

Pretty simple. Start with adding something to 2 or 3 of your meals. See how things go. Then add something to your snacks. See how things go.

I do not like the calorie counting thing. It is a pain in the A$$ and makes things more complicated than they really are. Not to mention that the estimations on maintenance calories are just estimations. So there is really no point on basing how much your are supposed to eat on something that may or may not be accurate. (that and the more your train and more muscle you have, the less accurate maintenance equations are)

Just look at what you are eating, if you are not gaining, eat more. If your fat is increasing too fast for your liking, eat less.

Eating is kind of like training. You add things in and take things out until you find what works best for you. Don't over complicate.

My advice on weight gain would be -

Gain 80lbs. (about 36kg) That should take 3 years or so. Then worry about cutting fat off. You are tall so you will carry that weight well anyhow. It will do wonders for your strength too.

As you can see I am not a "slow bulk guy." From what I know about you, you want to be really strong, the first step would be getting a lot bigger.
 
yeah if I'm gonna eat more I'm gonna have to add carbs, I can't eat any more than I do now with just protein and fat, I tried and it wasn't pretty :p

I want to be strong, but I don't want to be fat.

Wrangell, why would I want to try to figure out my maintenance? The only thing I need to know is how much I need to eat to gain like 0.5kg a week. If I eat more every week until that happens, then I know where I want to be at. Maintenance doesn't matter, since I'm not planning on maintaining.
 
The only thing I need to know is how much I need to eat to gain like 0.5kg a week. If I eat more every week until that happens, then I know where I want to be at.
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That is your answer. Easy Peesey.

I want to be strong, but I don't want to be fat.
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You will have to define "fat." What BF% are you right now? What do you consider fat? You will gain muscle and strength faster if you hold a bodyfat between 18% and 20%. (at least)

You do not have to do it that way. It is just easier and faster to put on the size and cut the extra fat later.
 
Yeah Karky, from what I experienced carbs are needed to grow pretty much. Bulking on a pure low carb diet didn't work for me well at all.

You know what I do I think, and it has been working great for me.

Carbs at breakfast, pre workout, carbs after workout, and carbs 2 hours after workout. Then I don't have any carbs for the rest of the day.

On non training days I keep carbs at each meal very small and they come almost entirely from veggies. Except breakfast where I have a cup of oatmeal.

It has been working great for me, gained 2 pounds in the past week, so there is no problem gaining. And my waist hasn't gone up any inches.. I will tell you the bodyfat test results this Monday and take new measurements.

But the way I see it, carbs are essentially required for growth, so only USE them at optimal anabolic times... and when we need to USE them for weight training.
 
add some complex carbs in w/ your lean proteins and youll be fine even on non training days. as long as there the right ones and your not overeating them you wont gain any fat for them. If you keep increasing your fat and protein your body will eventually start storing them as FAT. eat your carbs!!!
 
yeah, I don't know about carbs for breakfast though. What's the theory there? I know the body has been fasting but protein and fat can take care of that.. maybe eat a fruit or something along with it? And then just carbs during workout post workout and post post workout. and on off days I go fat+protein and cabrs from veggies and fruit?

Dawson, no offence, but I think you need to read around some more on diet. there is no reason for the body to store dietary at as fat more than carbs.
 
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