That's my point. Giving people the right info in the beginning makes more sense, instead of teaseing them with a quick fix.
"I can make you thin"?
- Thread starter illiniphase4
- Start date
That's my point. Giving people the right info in the beginning makes more sense, instead of teaseing them with a quick fix.
You mean the one that you don't know what the program is all about, but you are going to come up with your own conclusions based on one episode you saw of a television show? well, then I wouldn't have much respect for their opinions either....
That's like eating one Jenny craig meal and saying you are on the program....
and what makes you an expert to say it isn't healthy for him to have lost the weight without working out? who said you have to workout to loose weight and be healthy???? There are some people who are overweight and *can't* workout because they are in such bad health, because they are overweight. So are you saying if they loose weight, even if they can't jump on the treadmill everyday, they are also going to be unhealthy ???
Wroking out is the best way to promote health, BUT you can loose weight and still be healthy without having to workout....
......Who tells you this stuff?????
Oh, please....You think that being conscious of everything you eat and regulating your caloric intake without counting calories is easy????? Do you think knowing your limit by being aware of what your body NEEDS and not just want you WANT is easy???? Self discipline ISN'T easy.
Obviously you never tried it......
Don't get so caught up on the presentation and try to listen to the message...the WHOLE message..... It's all about taking responsibility for your own eating habits.....
Sure who doesn't look better when they workout? but just because he didn't doesn't mean he is unhealthy and who says he won't? This is a good starting point for people who are really out of shape, have never been able to sucessfully loose weight, and want to learn a way to eat that could help them get on the right path....
why is this so hard to understand?????
Hey. Not trying to disagree or argue with you, and never said he isn't healthy just because he doesn't workout, i have no doubt that he is healthy. Just saying if he worked out from the beginning he would have been able to retain more muscle mass and gain more muscle and strength, giving him a more muscular look rather than a skinny look. Just sayin.
I couldn't agree more....but sometimes it takes loosing the weight for a person to see the potential of what they can achieve and the working out becomes the next step in getting fit. Just like it is said, it's hard to loose fat and gain muscle at the same time. Not impossible, but difficult. So instead of making things hard when starting a brad new way of treating your body, why not take it in small steps?
It may not always be the most efficient way to get healthy, but sometimes it is easier for a person to break it down into smaller steps and experience some of the sucess making exercise something else that is achievable for them....
Cheers,
Diane
There is a problem here though. While his whole message may be helpful, the particulars of his message are sometimes wrong. Having finally seen the show, he certainly makes comments on general nutrition that are wholly incorrect (especially his blanket statement about carbs being bad for you). Why not have a registered dietitian come on and make those points correctly, or at the very least advise him so that he can provide his viewing audience with the correct information.
As for the man who lost 180 pounds without working out. The absence of weight shouldn't automatically be considered the presence of health. He may now be thin, but because of his previous excessive weight, may have done considerable harm to his cardiovascular system, a fitness program is probably needed now more than ever. I won't argue that his weight loss is impressive and admirable, but why not segway into recommending exercise. He may be thin, but I doubt he is in shape by any stretch of the word.
Normally for an individual at high risk for cardiovascular disease (doctor's prescribed) activity actually more immediately important than shedding the weight because it will provide a faster response, in that a developed cardiorespiratory system can better support the body, regardless of the body mass content of the individual, and is critical in countering the damage already wrought upon that system.
Losing eight should not be the endgame, but instead a step, but it is not presented that way on this show.
I agree. Last night I watched it again. He gave his four rules for weight loss.
1.Eat whaen you're hungry
2.eat whatever you want
3.eat consciencely
4 stop when you are full.
A few of his points make sense,but he was telling people to throw out all the food that didn't inspire them and only eat what they want, just less of it. Well I personally don't like veg so I'm going to stop eating them and only eat cheetoes. That's not healthy. You can lose weight doing it as long as you're not eating to many calories, but telling people to eat whatever they want is not good. anorexics lose weight and get results, but they are not healthy, and that should be the main concern.
1.Eat whaen you're hungry
2.eat whatever you want
3.eat consciencely
4 stop when you are full.
A few of his points make sense,but he was telling people to throw out all the food that didn't inspire them and only eat what they want, just less of it. Well I personally don't like veg so I'm going to stop eating them and only eat cheetoes. That's not healthy. You can lose weight doing it as long as you're not eating to many calories, but telling people to eat whatever they want is not good. anorexics lose weight and get results, but they are not healthy, and that should be the main concern.
Very well said, illini.
Losing wt and being thinner does not mean you are healthier. Aside from the cardiovascular aspect of it, the preservation of muscle tissue is quite important as well - making exercise very important.
It is incredibly valuable to focus on what healthy behaviors an individual can reasonably achieve in order to improve their health. Not everyone has to be on the "perfect" program - just making whatever changes they can is the best start. That doesn't mean, however, that one should stick with that - in any goal in life, everyone should always progress.
To say that someone started out by making small, reasonable changes is wonderful. However, to herald someone as healthier because they dieted off 180lbs of fat, water, and lean tissue with little to no emphasis on body composition, cardiovascular fitness, or strength - is not a good example to be setting for the thousands of average joes watching the show for some guidance.
Losing wt and being thinner does not mean you are healthier. Aside from the cardiovascular aspect of it, the preservation of muscle tissue is quite important as well - making exercise very important.
It is incredibly valuable to focus on what healthy behaviors an individual can reasonably achieve in order to improve their health. Not everyone has to be on the "perfect" program - just making whatever changes they can is the best start. That doesn't mean, however, that one should stick with that - in any goal in life, everyone should always progress.
To say that someone started out by making small, reasonable changes is wonderful. However, to herald someone as healthier because they dieted off 180lbs of fat, water, and lean tissue with little to no emphasis on body composition, cardiovascular fitness, or strength - is not a good example to be setting for the thousands of average joes watching the show for some guidance.
To BEGIN to get THIN one needs to think WITHIN
No greater VIOLIN plays better than from WITHIN one's own SKIN
It is a personal SIN to take it on the CHIN by having thick brain SKIN so throw all crap in the trash BIN and motivate yourself from WITHIN
So, lift your CHIN brotha and sista's and GRIN by playing the VIOLIN from WITHIN and begin to get THIN and personally WIN.
You are the firing PIN to keep your GRIN and you have no TWIN.
Moven on baby!
OH.....
And
ROCK ON!
he, he
Chillen
No greater VIOLIN plays better than from WITHIN one's own SKIN
It is a personal SIN to take it on the CHIN by having thick brain SKIN so throw all crap in the trash BIN and motivate yourself from WITHIN
So, lift your CHIN brotha and sista's and GRIN by playing the VIOLIN from WITHIN and begin to get THIN and personally WIN.
You are the firing PIN to keep your GRIN and you have no TWIN.
Moven on baby!
OH.....
And
ROCK ON!
he, he
Chillen
You missed the point. I haven't watched the show myself, but those four points are key to healthy living (healthy weight should be used, not "weight lost" as losing weight can be a sign of bad health). No where in those four rules, does it tell you what to eat, only that you should eat what you want. What these four rules will do is allow you to freely eat what you want without worrying about what you should or should not eat (i.e. the influence of the world). For example, let's say you order you favorite salad with cheese. Your friends say, "Hey isn't cheese going to make you fat?" How do you answer? Or let's say for example, you go to the store and you see "Fat free" of versions of the thing you love, but yet you find that you like the taste of the version with the fat, but yet the fat free version has less calories. How do you choose between? Do you choose the fat free because of less calories? Or because it has the same taste as the fat version?
Most people confuse themselves with these rules. They think it's a license to say, "Well I can go to McDonalds, and eat anything and everything. Screw eating veggies, I'm getting in my car and getting me supersize everything. Oh look, they have 2 for 1 specials, I'm going to order 2 of those since I can eat whatever I want. On my way there, I'm going to stop and buy 10 donuts because well, I can eat whatever I want and I want to eat that too." False. If you do this, then you failed to understand the four rules. Again, it's not telling you what to eat, only that you should eat what you want. So if you're just walking up and down fast food lane and eating everything you can get your hands on, then you broke all four rules.
If you give yourself permission to eat whatever you want, then you will find that you love veggies, you love fruits, you love such-and-such. You will also find that you hate or don't really like many things you once thought was good. For example, you might find you hate cottage cheese, but you love it when you mix it with pineapples. But if you're just sitting there stuffing you face with food saying, "These four rules let me eat whatever" then ironically, you broke all four of the rules.
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Have you ever heard of the expression, "You have to break a few eggs to make an omelet?"
This not only applies to the meaning you gotta work hard, but also to the fact that sometimes you just gotta break a few eggs to make an omelet. Nothing can substitute omelets like breaking a few eggs can.
This not only applies to the meaning you gotta work hard, but also to the fact that sometimes you just gotta break a few eggs to make an omelet. Nothing can substitute omelets like breaking a few eggs can.
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I have not yet seen the second show, ( I have read thru his site though) and did not hear the comment-or see it about the carbs. I listen for it today when I watch this next episode)
Nobody suggested that just because you are thin you are healthy, (or anorexia wouldn't be an issue). However, just because you loose weight without working out doesn't mean you are UNhealthy either. Granted, I think working out IS a much better means of loosing weight AND being healthy, but just because it isn't one, doesn't mean it is the other.
Nobody said he shed his weight fast. That is when you get into the unhealthy aspects of loosing weight. If it was done over a long period of time, it isn't necessarily unhealthy.
This show simply suggest, if you eat better, you will be healthier. He offers means to manage that. I don't believe any one way (including this one) is the end all for anyone. Everyone finds what works for them. This is just one way to get started.
cheers
Diane
I actually did this LONG before I had ever heard of this show or this "program" (I'm talking 12 years ago- before it existed) and I can tell you from experience, it works.
If you really think about what you are going to put in your mouth before you do it, and you consider the fact that you want to loose weight, you want to be healthier, and you are going to eat something you really want to enjoy, A LOT of the crap that you eat now, will not be as appealing as it once was.
It is a form of self discipline. I can't say it is easy, but if people would actually *think* before they shoved that donut into their mouth, they may find they don't really want it.
Anorexics also STARVE themselves. He doesn't suggest that at all.
Cheers,
Diane
Doesn't mean your unhealthy either. This isn't black and white, there is a middle ground.
and who says what is being suggested is so unreasonable?
exactly, personally I don't beieve in "the perfect" program, but this is a start.
Who says it was lost in an unhealthy way just because he didn't workout???? Again, I'm all for working out, hell, I do it everyday because I enjoy it, but that doesn't mean you can't loose weight and still be healthy WITHOUT working out. It's not like the man dropped 180lbs in 2 weeks.....
I disagree. Those 4 points could maybe be called "keys to weight loss," but as I mentioned above, just being in a target weight zone does not make a person physically healthy, it just reduces the risks based upon weight.
Another thing not hit on AT ALL by this show is the fact that dieting and correct exercise is, without exception, the quickest way to both: 1. lose weight, and 2. see results.
You assume that people are going to like veggies and fruits when compared to the unhealthy alternatives. This is a terribly bad assumption to make. If it were true then dieting would not be this difficult.
This is exactly why the above four rules shouldn't really be paraded around in our society. Honestly, it helps me to realize how childish adults in America can be about things. When I was a kid, I ate the healthy dinner my mom made or I didn't eat at all. While I haven't always followed a healthy diet, I at least learned how to eat correctly from this. When you tell the average, overweight American that they can eat whatever they want in moderation, it's unlikely that they are going to eat healthy foods. Instead, they will continue to eat the nutrient insufficient, easy access foods.
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I said the term should be replaced with "healthy weight" not weight lost or gain. It's pretty much what you're saying. Being in the "healthy weight" range could mean being over the "ideal" weight chart. Of course, being 200 pounds overweight could be bad, but if you're 10-20 pounds over, it's nothing to stress really. A healthy weight is a "you" weight. You must listen to your body to understand if you are within these ranges.
You keep using the term "diet." That's the problem. If you think "this is a cool diet because I can eat whatever" then you missed the point. By thinking in the "diet" term, you failed to see the point. These four rules centers around the fact that you should eat food based on "you." If you think following these rules will magically make you healthy, then again, you failed to see the point. I can't explain what the point is, because you can't put it in words. The only way to see the point is to actually understand what the rules mean. Very few will "get it" and when they do, they will jump in joy. If you think these rules are for "fat acceptance" then again, you didn't get it. If you think these rules are for "eat whatever, but less of it" then again you didn't get it. If you think these rules are an excuse to eat the junk you're eating now, then you didn't get it.
Likewise, very people understand the true meaning of being a patriot. Everyone knows the definitions, much like everyone knows the definition of these four rules. But yet, very few, I mean very few, knows the true meaning behind it. I'm not claiming I know the secret to the universe, but I will say that I laugh when someone asks me, "Won't that make you fat?"
Again, only a very few people "get" these four concepts. Some members on this forum actually exercise these four rules and not know it. I see healthy people all over, and when you watch what they eat, you'd cry.
Let's go over the facts of the average "American" as you stated:
1) The average american eats unhealthy. Fact: You're never going to eat fully healthy meals. It would be unrealistic to say, "I'm going to eat only fruits and veggies for the rest of my life" when all you ate in the past is junk.
2) The average american doesn't exercise often. Fact: You're never going to be a "gym freak" if you never exercised in the past. It's hard. It would be unrealistic to say, "I'm going to the gym every day and pump up hardcore all day and night."
3) The average american is overweight. Fact: So what? If you think weight is everything, then it will be everything.
You keep using the term "diet." That's the problem. If you think "this is a cool diet because I can eat whatever" then you missed the point. By thinking in the "diet" term, you failed to see the point. These four rules centers around the fact that you should eat food based on "you." If you think following these rules will magically make you healthy, then again, you failed to see the point. I can't explain what the point is, because you can't put it in words. The only way to see the point is to actually understand what the rules mean. Very few will "get it" and when they do, they will jump in joy. If you think these rules are for "fat acceptance" then again, you didn't get it. If you think these rules are for "eat whatever, but less of it" then again you didn't get it. If you think these rules are an excuse to eat the junk you're eating now, then you didn't get it.
Likewise, very people understand the true meaning of being a patriot. Everyone knows the definitions, much like everyone knows the definition of these four rules. But yet, very few, I mean very few, knows the true meaning behind it. I'm not claiming I know the secret to the universe, but I will say that I laugh when someone asks me, "Won't that make you fat?"
Again, only a very few people "get" these four concepts. Some members on this forum actually exercise these four rules and not know it. I see healthy people all over, and when you watch what they eat, you'd cry.
Let's go over the facts of the average "American" as you stated:
1) The average american eats unhealthy. Fact: You're never going to eat fully healthy meals. It would be unrealistic to say, "I'm going to eat only fruits and veggies for the rest of my life" when all you ate in the past is junk.
2) The average american doesn't exercise often. Fact: You're never going to be a "gym freak" if you never exercised in the past. It's hard. It would be unrealistic to say, "I'm going to the gym every day and pump up hardcore all day and night."
3) The average american is overweight. Fact: So what? If you think weight is everything, then it will be everything.
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You contradict yourself. You said losing weight is not ideal for everyone, but yet now you're saying that you should diet and exercise to lose weight.
There's a step 3: Life long change. Will you be able to obtain this? Probably not if you're on a diet. As soon as you start eating what you usually ate before the diet will result in gaining the weight back.
This is the key problem with today's world. You hear it everywhere. "Diet and exercise." Yes, it's a scientific fact that if you do these two things you will see results. But no one says what happens afterward. Just because you "diet and exercise" and lost weight and got a "nice bod,
it's nothing to be proud of. The only time to be proud is that when you die, you can actually fit in a nice coffin and rest easily knowing you did everything you had to do and reached the maximum that you could have reached.
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When I use the term diet, I use it in it's literal sense, as in the foods you ingest.
I did not contradict myself, I never said that everyone has to lose weight. At the same time, with a show touting that "I can make you thin," for proper proper diet (nutrition) and exercise not be a part of that show, makes it incomplete.
What "comes after" is entirely up to the individual. Lifelong change cannot be taught, because it is based on the motivation of the individual.
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I don't think anyone is suggesting that sort of ' either / or ' alternative.
The idea is simply to move toward a more healthy diet overall, so it isn't ' only ' fruits and veggies, but rather, ' more ' fruits and veggies. Ditto for junk food ...instead of it making up 50% - 80% of your diet, the goal is to minimize it as much as possible ...i.e 5%, 10% etc. etc.
Well, being a ' gym freak ' is only one form of exercise. There are many other ways to exercise your body - including easy things like going for walks / hikes / bike rides / skating / swimming etc. etc.
The first step towards better health is to simply get more ' active ' IMO.
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