My legs are weak and don't get stronger.. help!

R

realworksuks

2
I do an upper/lower split four days per week and my legs just don't make gains... every other muscle group does, chest, back, arms, everything else.

But my legs just won't do anything!

for my lower body day I do:

4 sets of squats, pyramiding the weight each set and reducing reps.
4 sets of deadlifts, pyramiding the weight again.
3 sets of split squats (these are just stationary lunges)
3-4 sets of leg press (pyramid the weight)


Then other than that I do four sets of rowing, 3 sets of lat pulldowns, and 3 sets of bent over rows, 4 sets of weighted crunches, and 3 sets of anterior deltoid rows... but that doesn't matter much to the legs.

So what's wrong here? I am eating great and everything.... but I can bench much more than I can squat! Gah! Can someone give me some advice or something?
 
Have you ever tried going high rep straight sets like 20 rep squats, presses, extensions, curls, etc..?

My legs used to lag big time and one summer I went with a high rep/straight set approach for my legs and they grew like hell!
 
What LV said. Mix it up a bit.

Or maybe try doing something more like my routine for FB 3x/wk and see how that treats ya? Sounds to me like maybe your training frequency is too high. The upper body has enough time to recover (they're smaller groups), but the lower doesn't. Hmm, yeah, that sounds about right. I really think you should try a FBW 3x/week.

Also, and maybe it's just me, but that is waaaay too many total sets for someone who's still a beginner.
 
Derwyddon said:
How long have you been doing this routine? are you making physical gains? Do you care about strength if you're making physical gains?
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I have been doing this exact routine for the past month. I have been doing an upper/lower split since the start of December.

I don't think my legs are growing much, I carry the most fat there compared to any other spot on my body so it's tough to tell if they are growing. I care about physical gains more than strength but it's pretty annoying being able to squat so little.

I really don't want to go back into a full body workout... I have to rush through everything trying to hit all the muscle groups.

Hmmm... High reps, that sounds like it'd be fun to try. What do you mean by high rep straight sets???

I think my legs should have enough recovery time, I do them on Wednesday and Saturday. More recovery time than if I were to do a FBW.
 
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[Focus] said:
Oh, I read that wrong, haha. But I still think you are doing far too many sets.
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I don't see why this would be too many sets. All of the things I've read say that you should get lots of sets in for muscle growth.

explain what the bad things are that would happen with too many sets?
 
4 sets is nothing.
If you want to gain strength, lower the reps and increase sets. Maybe 3-4 reps, 6-10 sets.

Or...

SMOLOV 20 rep squat cycles.
 
Hunh. The server went down for a while, there, I think.

realworksuks said:
I don't see why this would be too many sets. All of the things I've read say that you should get lots of sets in for muscle growth.

explain what the bad things are that would happen with too many sets?
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Keeping in mind that I have never claimed to be an expert...

A) Volume and intensity are antagonistic. Or, inversely proportional, if you prefer. 32 sets of exercises is quite a lot of volume, so your intensity can't be very high. It follows that if your intensity isn't very high, you are probably not achieving the sort of physiological (hormonal) responses required for (optimal) adaptation.

B) All those sets and exercises, all that work, makes it more likely that you are overtraining, which has roughly the same effect (or lack thereof) as in A. Most of what's written that advocates many sets of many different exercises is written for advanced lifters who have already, over years, adapted to such high volume work loads. It's not really meant for beginners. The body's ability to adapt is not unlimited. There is a threshold above or below which results will not be optimal. Go too far above or below and you can even worsen over time, because your work load exceeds your body's capacity for recovery, creating a downward spiral.

C) Pursuant to B, beginners are able to operate at a much higher % of their one-rep maximums, while not being able to handle as much total volume. This is part of why many people advocate less sets and exercises, but higher reps (12-15'ish range) to start with. Arnold believed this. He had a program he called "The Golden Six" (a basic FB routine) that he recommended to anyone for their first few years of training, as being the best for putting on mass.

If I were you I'd take a week off the weights, then start on a FB routine. The one I do can get done in 45-60 minutes (depending on wait times and how much time you end up having to spend switching the plates around), and if performing it with the heaviest weight you can manage for 3 sets x 15 reps per exercise doesn't give you better results, I'll be surprised.
 
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[Focus] said:
Hunh. The server went down for a while, there, I think.



Keeping in mind that I have never claimed to be an expert...

A) Volume and intensity are antagonistic. Or, inversely proportional, if you prefer. 32 sets of exercises is quite a lot of volume, so your intensity can't be very high. It follows that if your intensity isn't very high, you are probably not achieving the sort of physiological (hormonal) responses required for (optimal) adaptation.

B) All those sets and exercises, all that work, makes it more likely that you are overtraining, which has roughly the same effect (or lack thereof) as in A. Most of what's written that advocates many sets of many different exercises is written for advanced lifters who have already, over years, adapted to such high volume work loads. It's not really meant for beginners. The body's ability to adapt is not unlimited. There is a threshold above or below which results will not be optimal. Go too far above or below and you can even worsen over time, because your work load exceeds your body's capacity for recovery, creating a downward spiral.

C) Pursuant to B, beginners are able to operate at a much higher % of their one-rep maximums, while not being able to handle as much total volume. This is part of why many people advocate less sets and exercises, but higher reps (12-15'ish range) to start with. Arnold believed this. He had a program he called "The Golden Six" (a basic FB routine) that he recommended to anyone for their first few years of training, as being the best for putting on mass.

If I were you I'd take a week off the weights, then start on a FB routine. The one I do can get done in 45-60 minutes (depending on wait times and how much time you end up having to spend switching the plates around), and if performing it with the heaviest weight you can manage for 3 sets x 15 reps per exercise doesn't give you better results, I'll be surprised.
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I am literally lol'ing that you think 4-5 sets is over training.

and intensity or volume..different people find that one or the other works for others..for some intensity..for some volume..

I lowered my military press reps to 3-5, increased sets to 7 and in 2-3 weeks have already gained 20lbs on my press.
 
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There's also freq to consider, some people can blast bodyparts once a week and make gains. While others thrive on volume.

A general rule, but by no means applicable to everyone/everything, two can be high while the other must be low. Otherwise you're probably overtraining. I know evo and myself thrive on frequency and volume (or at least evo used to). Imo I think size is more freq & vol at lower intensity, and strength is more intensity and volume.
 
Phate89 said:
I am literally lol'ing that you think 4-5 sets is over training.
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I am literally lol'ing that you have subpar reading comprehension and are seriously overconfident in your level of fitness knowledge and its "objective worth"? I can handle your being generally obnoxious, but try not to do it in my specific direction please. :)
 
IMO add extensions, drop the 'split squats', stop pyramiding, up your calories, and give it some more time.
 
RWS, latch on to Mreik's responses, my friend. Seek to look deep in his brain. (No jokes now, lol, I am serious).




Best regards,


Chillen
 
I'm actually eating around 5,000 calories per day Mreik, maybe even more than a big dude like you :p

Phate: if you would have read my whole post you would have seen that I am doing around 15 sets for legs... if you count deadlifts as legs, if not around 11.

I REALLY don't want to go back to a full body workout... my gains have been huuuuge in all of my other muscles with this split, so I want to stick with it.

I can't imagine I would be making the same gains without this much attention to each muscle group.

I am pretty sure I am not overtraining... I think you have to workout pretty damn intensely to overtrain... 4 days a week ... i've seen people do a lot more than that. Plus I feel great ALL THE TIME!

Mreik... I am definitely going to take your suggestion and scrap the lunges and add in the extensions... lunges are hard as hell.... they are great on the glutes and quads, though.

I think I will give a go at more volume as well.... do you think that two days a week will be enough days to do high volume training? Or should I add in a third leg day per week?

Oh, and why stop the pyramid? Just go light weight/high volume for four sets each exercise or something?
 
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Way more accessory lifts. More ab work at the end, more unilateral work, more back work.

Rule #1.) Your lower back isn't strong enough.
Rule #2.) Your lower back still isn't strong enough :D

Do all the stuff you hate to do. If you hate front squats enough to where you only back squat, front squat.

Hate RDL's? Do them more.

Rotate the exercises you do. For instance, don't DL for 10 weeks straight, do a handful of weeks with rack pulls, then with snatch grip deads, etc...
 
I second what Lei just said. In my experience (not much but enough to know a thing or two ;)) a lack of progress with the lower body is most commonly caused by an inbalance. My advice would be to up the unilateral work which definately means keeping the split squats, maybe adding step ups and single leg deadlifts.

And Lei's other point about the back is a great one too, I'll have to +rep for that, a weakness in the lower back might be preventing gains in the legs. Good Mornings and back extensions could help this
 
Thanks CCR.

Yes, after you exhaust your "newb" gains, you will be unable to just squat and deadlift your way to bigger numbers. This is because, like CCR said, you have imbalances that are holding you back. This is why you need supplemental and accessory lifts to help you bring those weak points up to the surface where they can be dealt with. It's always good to just keep training your lower back, though, just because it's never strong enough.
 
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