How much is too much as far as how many exercises, sets, reps per session?

[xswtsalvationx0]

I am posting this thread based on what I would like to know and also I have seen others here lately posting and asking if they are doing too much of something. It is better to keep the discussion all in one thread rather than all over the place. I do not have the best subject title, but hopefully this is enough to get people in here. I know there are quite a bit of people (including me) that have spent 2 hours or more in the weightroom in the past, but still spends like a little over an hour in the weightroom because of how many exercises, sets, reps, rest we do. The time spent in the weightroom could be included with the time spent doing our dynamic warm ups we always do before we start lifting or not. For me (not including the warm up time), I spend about an hour and a half in the weightroom.

For me, I want to be able to spend at least an hour or less in the weightroom lifting and I am pretty sure others are looking for a way to do that too and some may want their warm up time included in the hour that they are in the weightroon. If they decide to do locomotion/conditioning work before lifting, that including their warm up may want to be done in an hour or even 45 minutes.

1. What should the min and max warm up time be? What would be considered too much? (I am thinking the warm up if doing foam rolling/stretching tight muscles only, and then dynamic warm up would be about 15 min if only lifting or 30 minutes warm up if your going to condition/do locomotion work. Thats my time I do it it.

2. If the person decides to do locomotion/conditioning work, how long should that take after the warm up?

3. If someones goal is to be out of the weightroom in an hour, how many exercises should be done, how many sets, reps, and rest between sets would make the person be done in an hour?

4. Same question above, but if the person wants to be done in 30-45 minutes? (what I am shooting for)

5. I cannot think of anymore questions to ask...


Too much weightlifting, too much conditioning, too much warming up, too many sets and reps, too much rest, etc....too much of anything will make people bored after a while and lose interest if doing the same thing for too long day in and day out. If we know how many exercises we should be doing in the amount of time we have or want to lift for, then it would be much easier to stick to our goals and want to go to the weightroom all the time instead of skipping exercises or sessions because it takes too long. The problem I have is whatever weightraining schedule I make or conditioned work outside or whatever, it takes too long and makes me not want to stick to it anymore and try something else. I have been in and out of the weightroom a lot because of this and not willing to stick to anything because it takes so long. I am pretty sure many others feel this way too and try their best to stick to their lifting schedule, but does not get much out of it and gets fatique.

 

[LeiYunFat]

1. What should the min and max warm up time be? What would be considered too much? (I am thinking the warm up if doing foam rolling/stretching tight muscles only, and then dynamic warm up would be about 15 min if only lifting or 30 minutes warm up if your going to condition/do locomotion work. Thats my time I do it it.

Warm up time should be until you feel good enough to begin lifting or until you work up a light sweat. But this doesn't necessarily mean beginning with cardio, instead, like you are doing, dynamic warm ups are cool.

2. If the person decides to do locomotion/conditioning work, how long should that take after the warm up?

Locomotion, as in agility exercises like sprints, grapevines, cone drills? You should be doing this at practice with your team. It's up to you whether you want to do it in the proximity of your lifting, but if you think it detracts from your training by making you too tired, then do them several hours before or after your lifting.

3. If someones goal is to be out of the weightroom in an hour, how many exercises should be done, how many sets, reps, and rest between sets would make the person be done in an hour?

This is subjective for every athlete. Some people need to do more work than others. Simply put, if you have work to do, don't leave until you're done doing it. I used to train for two hours at a time just doing work. An hour seems to be the golden rule, but who cares? If you have things you need to do, then do them.

4. Same question above, but if the person wants to be done in 30-45 minutes? (what I am shooting for)

Some people are faster than others. Some can get tons of things done in a short amount of time by supersetting, running circuts, and all around staying intense. In the most ideal conditions, you can time yourself. If it takes you one minute to do a set, with two minutes of rest, you should finish 5 sets in 15 minutes. This could be your benchmark, but conditions will vary every session. Sometimes you'll be more intense, sometimes you'll be more tired, etc. So I don't advise it.

I would say, do all the work you need to in one day. Was it a good session? If so, use that as a benchmark. If you got X amount of work done in Y amount of time, then that is your ideal session. The next time you do X amount of work, aim for it to be done in Y amount of time. If it turned out to be Y+30 minutes, then maybe it wasn't such a good training session. So what.

5. I cannot think of anymore questions to ask...

Then this really shouldn't be a number, should it?

Too much weightlifting, too much conditioning, too much warming up, too many sets and reps, too much rest, etc....too much of anything will make people bored after a while and lose interest if doing the same thing for too long day in and day out. If we know how many exercises we should be doing in the amount of time we have or want to lift for, then it would be much easier to stick to our goals and want to go to the weightroom all the time instead of skipping exercises or sessions because it takes too long. The problem I have is whatever weightraining schedule I make or conditioned work outside or whatever, it takes too long and makes me not want to stick to it anymore and try something else. I have been in and out of the weightroom a lot because of this and not willing to stick to anything because it takes so long. I am pretty sure many others feel this way too and try their best to stick to their lifting schedule, but does not get much out of it and gets fatique.

This is not an effective way of measuring your goals. If strength is your goal, training session duration is not your measuring tape. The amount of weight lifted is. Get my drift? I sound like a broken record already, but if you have something you need to get done, don't leave the gym until it's done. Period.

 

[DEF]

3. If someones goal is to be out of the weightroom in an hour, how many exercises should be done, how many sets, reps, and rest between sets would make the person be done in an hour?

4. Same question above, but if the person wants to be done in 30-45 minutes? (what I am shooting for)

Why don't you try a routine and see how long it takes you, then adjust? Everyone's different.

 

[xswtsalvationx0]

I do. everything takes about an hour and a half to complete no matter what routine I try to make. Time just goes by fast. Someone told me that after 1 hour of exercising you are no longer building muscle, but is starting to consume muscle. This is not counting warm up. I do agree with this because being in the weightroom an hour and a half to sometimes 2 hours, I feel tired and fatique like I did too much and with the last few exercises I do (after a certain amount of time is up), I don't feel as good.

I could probably do a split like.. Mon/Thurs, Tue/Fri but the thing about it is that the next day I would be working different movements and then can be fatique in some because of the workout the day before. I tried that once and I suffered from the soreness the day before and it affected the next day of workout, so I rather not do back to back days on the big workouts...

My goal is to make a good routine and stick to it. I hate having to change it all the time and try and find something to work for me. This is another option I am thinking that I just thought of writing this just now...

I can try Mon/Wed/Fri for the upper body horizontal/vertical push/pull and hip/quad dominant, and do Scapular/Core Work on Tue/Thurs/Sat. I can try it like this to see how my body feels at the end of the week. Once I get the core strength I want and same with scapular strength, I can do it just Tuesday and Saturday (2 days a week).


For right now before the middle of feb (my goal) I want to work on my side imbalance (obliques) that is causing me to tilt to the left side when I stand up and tilt to the right side when I hold the dumbbell in my right hand. Also when I stand on my right leg, my weight wants to shift over to my left leg. My left leg has better balance. When I have tried to do a king deadlift with my right leg (bending over and squatting) or even one legged RDL on that leg and keeping my balance, my weight goes towards my left instead of just straight down and up.

I am hoping at home that hip thrusts, torso twists with dumbbells and possibly chops/lifts with them too, twist throws off the brick wall in the backyard, and side planks can all get rid of this imbalance. Once I can be able to stand up perfectly straight vertically without tilting to one side at all and with dumbbells in one of my hands, then I know I am ready to start lifting regularly again and can try the M/W/F and T/TH/FRI workout plan I have. I am also going to do glute activation/glute medius activation as well with hip flexor stretching and hoping my hip flexors are not tight anymore by the mid of feb too. thats also my goal.

Goal is middle of Feb and be ready with no more side imbalances and no more tight hip flexors and I want my glutes to be ready to fire! I want to plan everything ahead of time and make myself goals, so I can reach them.

 

[Krodad]

I would say, do all the work you need to in one day. Was it a good session? If so, use that as a benchmark. If you got X amount of work done in Y amount of time, then that is your ideal session. The next time you do X amount of work, aim for it to be done in Y amount of time. If it turned out to be Y+30 minutes, then maybe it wasn't such a good training session. So what.

That kind of sums it all right there...best advice on the topic I could imagine. As long as the routine you have set up is actually worthwile, and will get you toward your goals.
I, for one, don't waste a lot of time with multiple bi/tri excercises. No big reason to triple up on isolation excercises when you can spend your time much more efficiently with the monster compound excercises. If you like spending 2 or more hours in the gym, I guess that's fine, but I like to go in with a certain level of motivation and prep, do my work, and get out. Don't forget that rest between sets is important, but don't let it get to the point where you spend more time at rest than at work.

 

[DEF]

I think you should post your routine. I mean, it's pretty simple. You either:

- have too many exercises to complete in the time you like
- have too many sets
- have too long of rest periods
- are not supersetting when you could be

You just need to figure out which it is.

 

[matt182]

Theres a difference between optimal and too much.

Signs of overtraining are

fatigue
insomnia
muscle loss
injury
feeling down
etc

 

[LeiYunFat]

I do. everything takes about an hour and a half to complete no matter what routine I try to make. Time just goes by fast. Someone told me that after 1 hour of exercising you are no longer building muscle, but is starting to consume muscle. This is not counting warm up. I do agree with this because being in the weightroom an hour and a half to sometimes 2 hours, I feel tired and fatique like I did too much and with the last few exercises I do (after a certain amount of time is up), I don't feel as good.

After about an hour of intense training, cortisol levels shoot up...who cares? You're thinking about it too much. Like Evo said in a previous thread, you're educating yourself into paranoia. You're not hurting your gains if you work hard and take care of your nutrition outside of the weight room...that is, once you get out. When you're in the weight room your only concern should be working hard.

I could probably do a split like.. Mon/Thurs, Tue/Fri but the thing about it is that the next day I would be working different movements and then can be fatique in some because of the workout the day before. I tried that once and I suffered from the soreness the day before and it affected the next day of workout, so I rather not do back to back days on the big workouts...

My goal is to make a good routine and stick to it. I hate having to change it all the time and try and find something to work for me. This is another option I am thinking that I just thought of writing this just now...

I can try Mon/Wed/Fri for the upper body horizontal/vertical push/pull and hip/quad dominant, and do Scapular/Core Work on Tue/Thurs/Sat. I can try it like this to see how my body feels at the end of the week. Once I get the core strength I want and same with scapular strength, I can do it just Tuesday and Saturday (2 days a week).

That's good, yes-- you should learn how your body reacts to stuff. But if you're going to do a routine, you need to give it several weeks before you can make a sound judgement call. This work in two ways: it will keep you from picking any old routine you see because you'll want to do some consideration before you commit, and it will allow you to better track your progress.

I honestly think you're making a huge deal out of your muscle imbalances. After reading your other posts I think all you need is extra pulling work like rows, face pulls, etc. All this business with side sleeping/stomach sleeping, and holding db's...that's nothing. Just focus on getting stronger. Small imbalances like that are a waste of time to work on if you're all around in need of strength gains. Once you start getting stronger, the imbalances will elimiate themselves or, if they are serious, will become apparent and you'll know exactly what to do with them because you'll know exactly how they are holding you back from your main goal of getting stronger.

Still, you should make some sort of journal or at least post your routine.

Goal is middle of Feb and be ready with no more side imbalances and no more tight hip flexors and I want my glutes to be ready to fire! I want to plan everything ahead of time and make myself goals, so I can reach them.

If you're foam rolling, stretching, and warming up, you shouldn't see many probs from your hip flexors. It's time to focus on getting stronger.

 

[xswtsalvationx0]

Will be picking one exercise per movement each session and is going to start this tomorrow (Monday)... and hopefully it does not take forever to do and it is something that I can actually stick with without getting tired and not feel like doing it. I will have to force myself to stick with this no matter what happens. I am tired of trying to make routines all the time and stuff.

During Warm Up is the Glute Max/Glute Med Activation with dynamic stretches and stretching tight muscles like the hip flexors... and the reason why I need hip flexor stretches and such is because I have anterior pelvic tilt.

Here is my planned schedule for whoever that asked to look..

- Each movement if possible will have about 3 exercise choices and in order 1 of them will be done each session. (example: M (Single Leg Deadlift/Single leg RDL), W (RDL), Fri (Deadlift)
- I am limited right now on exercises until middle of feb when school starts up again. No Pull Ups, Seated Row, and Cable Equipment
- I am going to start with medium weight with everything and then increase weight each week until its up to 8 reps range with diffuculty. I am doing this to make sure both my left side and right side is even and correct form is being done.
- Until I get rid of my anterior pelvic tilt, my quad work will be just keeping the muscle strength and increasing the strength in my bodyweight one legged squat.
- If at anytime I see myself tilting on any exercise, I am not ready to go to that weight yet. I want good posture, good control, good form, and no imbalances. I always have to look into the mirror. If I do not look into the mirror and I just videotape myself, the form is not very good for some reason.

Mon/Wed/Fri # 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 are all 3x8. #9. and 10. is 3x15 sec hold and goes up 5 seconds each week
1. Balance Work: On One leg (between each lower body set)
2. Hip Dominant: Single Leg Deadlift & Single Leg RDL (M), RDL (W), (F) Deadlift
3. Upper Body Horizontal Push: Bench Press, Incline Press, Push Up
4. Serratus Anterior: Supine/Prone 1-arm dumbbell protraction (M), Incline Shoulder Raise (W), Scap Push Up (F)
5. Upper Body Horizontal Pull: One Arm Bent Over Row (M), Bent Over Row (W), Inverted Row (F)
6. Upper Body Vertical Push: One Arm Shoulder Press (MW), Shoulder Press (F)
7. Upper Body Vertical Pull: Lat Pulldown Underhand Grip (M), Lat Pulldown Overhand Grip (W), Lat Pulldown Neutral Grip (F)
8. Rotation: MB Twist Throws & Side Plank with Twist (M), DB Chops & Lifts (W), Arms extended DB Twist (F)
9. Stabilization: Plank & Bird Dog (M), Side Plank (W), Supine Plank & Glute Bridge (F)
10. Compression: Supine Vacuum (M), Sitting Vacuum (W), Standing Vacuum (F)


Tue/Thurs/Fri #2 is 3x8. #3, 4, 5, 6, 9, & 10 are all 3x10. #7 and 8 varies. 10 reps first week, then increase 5 reps each week
1.Balance Work First: On One leg (between each lower body set)
2. Quad Dominant: Single Leg Squat (Tue), Lunge, Lateral Lunge, Rotational Lunge (Thurs), DB Squat & Front Squat (Sat)
3. Scapular Elevators: Scapular Wall Slides TUE/THURS/SAT
4. Scapular Retractors: TLW (TUE) Prone Shrugs (Thurs), TLW (Sat)
5. Scapular Depressors: Y (Tue), Straight Arm Lat Pulldowns (Thurs), Y (Sat)
6. External Rotation: Lying External Rotation (Tue), Poor Man's Shoulder Horn (Thurs), Lying External Rotation (Sat)
7. Lower RA/Upper RA: Crunches & Reverse Crunches (Tue), Stability Ball Crunches & Reverse Crunches (Thurs), Leg Raises (Sat)
8. Lateral Flexion: Saxxon Side Hip Thrusts (Tue), Saxxon Side Bends (Thurs), Side Hip Thrusts (Sat)
9. Forearm Curls/Wrist Curls/Wrist Turns: can be done during the lower ra/upper ra set
10. Bicep Curl/Tricep Overhead Extension: can be done during the lateral flexion set


Combine Plan:

Mon/Wed/Fri
- Balance Work between each set of lower body hip dominant exercise. For the hip dominant, SLD and SLRDL is done back to back for Mondays.
- Upper Body Horizontal Push followed by Serratus Anterior followed by Upper Body Horizontal Pull with same weight = 1 set
- Upper Body Vertical Push followed by Upper Body Vertical Pull = 1 set
- Rotation is by itself
- Stabilization followed by Compression right after = 1 set.

Tue/Thurs/Sat
- Balance Work between each set of a lower body quad dominant exercise. For quad dominant on Thursdays, the Lunges will go like this example: Lunge right leg, lunge left leg, lateral lunge right leg, lateral lunge left leg, rotational lunge right leg, rotational lunge left leg and then balance work between the set
- Scapular Elevators followed by Scapular Retractors followed by Scapular Depressors
- Lower RA/Upper RA is done between the sets of External Rotation
- Forearm/Wrist and Bicep/Tricep is done between the sets of Lateral Flexion

 

[LeiYunFat]

You should focus on getting stronger on your squats and dl's. If you've done these exercises before, there is no reason to take it light on the 3x8's. You should be hitting those with your 10 RM at the very least...it's unecessary to "start light" for the first few weeks, it will only waste your time.

If you haven't ever done those lifts, you can do them in your home with a broomstick and just practice throught the day. Other than that, you should be using challenging weight for those sets.

I don't think single leg deadlifts are that great, but maybe they work for you. Honestly I'd be just doing regular deads and trying to get stronger. A lot of your weaknesses that are not serious tend to remove themselves once you set your sights on getting stronger.

 

[xswtsalvationx0]

The weight is not going to be real light, just half the weight of max to make sure I have proper form and I have not lifted in a while. When I do my lifting monday, I also want to videotape myself and have you guys see how my form is and if any imbalances are showing and if its good, then I can do whatever weight that is a max to 8 reps for all the exercises. My parents don't really know anything about weightraining, so I have no one here at home to see my form and correct me if anything is going wrong or if any imbalances are showing using the weight I am using. I don't want to end up doing close to the 8 rep max weight and then the form end up being bad or imbalanced and hurting myself. I also don't want my body leaning toward one side either when I am squatting or deadlifting and one side of the body being weaker than the other because of the weight I am using.

I am still considered a beginner even though I have been lifting for a while on and off. I have not been serious learning about weightraining and did not get real serious about it until now when I found out about my imbalances by taking pictures of myself.

 

[Krodad]

Mon/Wed/Fri # 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 are all 3x8. #9. and 10. is 3x15 sec hold and goes up 5 seconds each week
1. Balance Work: On One leg (between each lower body set)
2. Hip Dominant: Single Leg Deadlift & Single Leg RDL (M), RDL (W), (F) Deadlift
3. Upper Body Horizontal Push: Bench Press, Incline Press, Push Up
4. Serratus Anterior: Supine/Prone 1-arm dumbbell protraction (M), Incline Shoulder Raise (W), Scap Push Up (F)
5. Upper Body Horizontal Pull: One Arm Bent Over Row (M), Bent Over Row (W), Inverted Row (F)
6. Upper Body Vertical Push: One Arm Shoulder Press (MW), Shoulder Press (F)
7. Upper Body Vertical Pull: Lat Pulldown Underhand Grip (M), Lat Pulldown Overhand Grip (W), Lat Pulldown Neutral Grip (F)
8. Rotation: MB Twist Throws & Side Plank with Twist (M), DB Chops & Lifts (W), Arms extended DB Twist (F)
9. Stabilization: Plank & Bird Dog (M), Side Plank (W), Supine Plank & Glute Bridge (F)
10. Compression: Supine Vacuum (M), Sitting Vacuum (W), Standing Vacuum (F)


Tue/Thurs/Fri #2 is 3x8. #3, 4, 5, 6, 9, & 10 are all 3x10. #7 and 8 varies. 10 reps first week, then increase 5 reps each week
1.Balance Work First: On One leg (between each lower body set)
2. Quad Dominant: Single Leg Squat (Tue), Lunge, Lateral Lunge, Rotational Lunge (Thurs), DB Squat & Front Squat (Sat)
3. Scapular Elevators: Scapular Wall Slides TUE/THURS/SAT
4. Scapular Retractors: TLW (TUE) Prone Shrugs (Thurs), TLW (Sat)
5. Scapular Depressors: Y (Tue), Straight Arm Lat Pulldowns (Thurs), Y (Sat)
6. External Rotation: Lying External Rotation (Tue), Poor Man's Shoulder Horn (Thurs), Lying External Rotation (Sat)
7. Lower RA/Upper RA: Crunches & Reverse Crunches (Tue), Stability Ball Crunches & Reverse Crunches (Thurs), Leg Raises (Sat)
8. Lateral Flexion: Saxxon Side Hip Thrusts (Tue), Saxxon Side Bends (Thurs), Side Hip Thrusts (Sat)
9. Forearm Curls/Wrist Curls/Wrist Turns: can be done during the lower ra/upper ra set
10. Bicep Curl/Tricep Overhead Extension: can be done during the lateral flexion set

Now I see why you are concerned about how much time is involved. I know you said you'd be doing one of each, but sheesh! This is a lot of excercises to keep track of and document as you go. Lot's of redundancy here as I see things. The redundancy issue is something I had to force myself away from, so I understand how one can develop a plan like this.
I do see what you're doing...one set per excercise, but lot's of different movements. I'm not sure that's conducive to both efficient use of your time, or efficient use of your body to meet your goals. Maybe someone else here will comment on that, but most of the time I think it's best for relative begnners to concentrate on the more basic compounds and really do perfect form, and LOG YOUR RESULTS over time to assist in checking progress and advancing on the weights.

Lei seems to be hitting the nail on the head pretty good here. It's a little disturbing to me that he's got such a no-nonsense attitude and such wise advice for someone that was born after I graduated high school.

 

[DEF]

Now I see why you are concerned about how much time is involved. I know you said you'd be doing one of each, but sheesh! This is a lot of excercises to keep track of and document as you go. Lot's of redundancy here as I see things. The redundancy issue is something I had to force myself away from, so I understand how one can develop a plan like this.
I do see what you're doing...one set per excercise, but lot's of different movements. I'm not sure that's conducive to both efficient use of your time, or efficient use of your body to meet your goals. Maybe someone else here will comment on that, but most of the time I think it's best for relative begnners to concentrate on the more basic compounds and really do perfect form, and LOG YOUR RESULTS over time to assist in checking progress and advancing on the weights.

Lei seems to be hitting the nail on the head pretty good here. It's a little disturbing to me that he's got such a no-nonsense attitude and such wise advice for someone that was born after I graduated high school.

Ditto. I'd start by cutting 1,4, 8 & possibly 10 on the first one and 1, 4, 8. 9 & 10 on the second. Then look at what's left and build from there. That's just me.

 

[xswtsalvationx0]

I just did my monday weightraining session today and it went well. At the end of the week, I want to upload clips of my form from all the movements and exercise choices each day (I can put it as pictures for easier view and upload because I do not stop the camera until I am done with the set) and get feedback on how things look before I start going heavy and I used all dumbbells. I am most concerned about the single leg exercises (single leg RDL and single leg deadlift). The only exercise I went heavy on was the lat pulldown.

I did everything 3x8 and the stability/compression 3x15 sec holds. It took an hour to do.

 

[DEF]

It took an hour to do.

Nice job, man.

 

[xswtsalvationx0]

thanks=)

I am sore this morning in my right glute and hamstring (I dont know why not my left. last time I did one legged rdl and one legged deadlift, I was sore on the left side, which was like 2 weeks ago the last time I worked out).

That is just weird. Just had to mention that. Maybe I did not get down low enough with my left leg or something. My right leg does not balance as good as the left, but did pretty good yesterday. I also do not count reps until I can go down and up without loosing my balance on the way down or on the way up.


Today is Tuesdays workout day=)