Is it possible that I've knackered my metabolism through extreme dieting?

S

shanks911

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I was wondering if anyone had any info on whether extreme calorie restriction could have a lasting effect on metabolism? Because I went on a cut a while ago which saw me go down to some ridiculously low calorie counts, I'm 5'9, was 180lbs and on some days I'd go down to under 1k cals.. Didn't really know much better back then.. Anyway, I was happy at the time because the cut seemed to be working wonders, as it would with such a massive calorie defecit..
However, now I've come to a bulking stage, and I'm having the toughest time putting on weight, which is very strange seeing as I have an endomorphic body type, always found it very easy to control my weight either way before the cut, but now I can't seem to put weight on much at all..

I slowly started adding calories, basically went from under 2000, slowly up to 3.3k, been monitoring the calories carefully and I'm pretty sure I'm counting within a 5% error range.. And basically, I've been bulking for around a month, and I've put on practically nothing! In fact, 2 weeks out of the last 4, i've LOST weight!.. And also I weigh-in very precisely, always the same time, always after getting rid of any excess waste.. I also have a weights plan in place so I'm training and eating a load of food.. This is how my calorie numbers have changed:

(kinda random time-periods but you get the gist)
1500 for first month..
1200 2-3weeks..
1800 2months
**Stopped Cutting Altogether at 152.8lbs + Started 2 Up Cals**
2000 1month (starting at 155.2)
2000 for another month +started regular weights
2500 for 2weeks
2750 for -1week
3000 for 2week
3300 for 2 weeks.. (NOW at 156.5)

btw - I've cut out all cardio and I try not to be very active so I don't think I'm burning many calories in that way.. Also, through the weights, I've definitely seen some 'tone' improvement but no actual size increase, and at the same time, the excess calories have given me a bit of a stomach, which I found rather bizarre, as surely even the stomach would have given me a few extra lb's on the scales, but apparently not!..

I'm pretty well versed on the basic weight-gain formula, eat more, train, no cardio.. But I'm just confused as to why I don't seem to be able to shift within a few lbs of where I started bulking at!..

Thanks for any replies..
 
You don't have to cut out cardio completely. It has other benefits than just burning calories for fat burning purposes.

When you are eating have you had a good look at what you are eating at which times? Do you have a breakdown of a typical day on your bulking diet including some macro nutrient information?

Also from looking at your calories it looks like you have only been getting enough calories for the last 4 weeks but before that you were a bit low for your height, weight and activity level. I have just estimated but I am only 5'6" and I need about 2800 calories for a bulk at the moment, you have only been getting around 3000 for 4 weeks so any weight put on is probably over the last 4 weeks and any time before that I doubt you put on much.

Also you didn't put that you started regular weight training until about half way down your list. If you were lifting weights and eating 2000 calories, then at your size I am not suprised you weren't putting on weight.

YOU CAN DO THIS!! BUT YOU HAVE TO WANT IT!!
DON'T GIVE UP!!!
 
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hey..

thanks for the reply!.. really appreciate it..

Just about the cardio, I did do it and I do enjoy doing anything thats got long-term health benefits (health is my main concern, as opposed to size/muscle mass).. However, because I was going for a bulk and I wasn't seeing results, I stopped it just to get the ball rolling, or at least thats what was intended!!

As for a breakdown of what I eat on a day-to-day basis, it's pretty standard, basically clean.. Practically every day, I'll have these few meals, these are just my staples:

(2litres of water a day, just starting today to move to 3litres!)

Breakfast: Scrambled Eggs, (2whole,2whites,2tablespoonsEVOliveOil,4Slices of WM Bread) + Maybe a protein shake in 200ml semi-skimmed milk and a piece of fruit - apple/banana

This is usually around 800-1100cals.. and abt 42-58g prot, 50g fat (mostly good from OO)

Lunch: 100g Porridge Oats + Chopped apple eaten cold w/200ml semi skimmed milk (if i didnt have the morning shake, i'd throw it in with this meal!)

with the shake this'd b 658cals, 44g prot, 16.4fat, 82g carbs..

Next Meal: Tuna Mayo 125g tuna in 30ml mayo eaten in 4slices of WM bread..

376cals, 38g prot, 10.9g fat, 30g carbs

Next Meal: Protein Shake + Banana 200ml semi-skimmed milk, all blended..

307cals, 27.7g prot, 5.5g fat, 39g carbs

Sometimes as a final meal, I'll have about 100g of grilled c.breast.. has abt 20g of protein.. this is usually just a before-bed kinda meal!.. Also, I tend to have the odd serving of nuts, either dry roasted or mixed, probably about once a day.. But those meals I've listed are basically the core meals I have every day, apart from the c.breast!.. I will have other small meals here and there, always clean though.. And on a daily basis I get anything between 180-250g of protein, 250-380g of carbs and about 90-120/130g fat..

And also, I had considered that just up until the last 4 weeks I wasn't getting enough calories to actually bulk, but it's still really strange that in those 4 weeks my weight has hardly moved!!..

I guess the plan of attack is going to be, up the cals to 3.5k, start drinking 3litres of water a day so my body has enough fluid to actually do whatever chemical reactions it wants/needs to and see what happens!!.. As a last resort, I'm considering going on a dirty-bulk! 6months ago I would never have even considered it as I put on fat weight very easily though eating wrongly, but now I seem to be struggling the other way so a dirty bulk may be worth a try! It's against everything I stand for but if its a means to an end then what the hell, may as well try it!.. Once I'm done bulking, I'm sure I'l be able to maintain on a clean diet..

Thanks for the words of support!!.. I always thought that I had an advantage bulking/cutting/whatever because I've done a lot of research and stuff, but when the scales don't say what I want them to, it gets VERY testing!!..
 
As I say I think the problem is coming from that you have been attempting to bulk for quite a while, but have only actually been getting enough calories for about the past 4 weeks.

Do you know how much you weighed 4 weeks ago and how much you weigh now??
Also have you had your bodyfat % taken? If so what was it and on what dates?

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Go through what I have posted below and tell us what you come out as for the maintenance calories. I am guessing it is around 2500-2600 for maintenance depends how active you are though. See what the maintenance is and I bet that when you do you will see that only for the past 4 weeks have you been getting enough calories. This is a science in many aspects. I am sure Chillen will be able to help a lot if he see's this post and will be able to copy in some of his great advice from elsewhere on nutrition and energy intake etc :)

I took this from the Nutrition 101 sticky:

Nutrition 101

First we need to establish how many calories you need to maintain your weight resting (BMR). This is thought to be a average for a person this weight, if you have an above/below average amount of muscle which would burn more/less calories, it would throw this equation off a bit. But in general, this usually works out pretty well..

For men: (10*w) + (6.25*h) - (5*a) + 5

For women: (10*w) + (6.25*h) - (5*a) - 161

w = weight in kg
h = height in cm
a = age

For us non-metric folk,
1kg = 2.2lb
1ft = 30.48cm (1inch = 2.54 cm)

The we are going to take into consideration your activity level.. Once you determine which you fall under, multiply your BMR by your activity level. (You can also use number in between these if you feel you don't exactly fall into one category, ie 1.35)

1.2 (Bed Ridden)
1.3 (Sedentary)
1.4 (Activle)
1.5 (VERY Avtive)


Here's an example,
I weigh 230lbs, which is 230lb/2.2(kg/lb) = 104.54kg
I am 5'9", or 69" which is 175.26cm
And am a 24 yr old male.

(10*104.54kg) + (6.25*175.26cm) - (5*24) + 5
= 1045.4 + 1095.375 - 120 +5
= 2025.775 kcal

So that is how many calories I would burn if I slept all day, which I don't btw
So I consider myself to be very active so I'll use 1.45 as my activity number.

2025.775 * 1.45
=2937.37kcal/day To maintain my weight.


BUT you wouldn't be reading this if you wanted to maintain your weight. If you're looking to slim down (lose fat) then you'll need to go into a slight caloric deficit. Since my daily intake should be around 2940, if I wanted to cut up (lose fat, get defined, tone, w/e) I would lower my calories to 2500. You can go even lower, but you will lose that hard earned muscle *which helps you burn fat btw*. And gaining muscle (bulking, gettin hhhugge) would require a caloric surplus.
 
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maintenance

Hi again,

I checked myself through that formula and it gave me 2315 as my maintenance, based on an activity rate of about 1.35, which I think is pretty accurate.. So to bulk, I would really only need around 2800, which i HAVE been getting for some time i think.. So I'll just cross reference how long I've been on 2800 or upwards of that, with my weight for that time period!..

Really I've only been getting 2800 since the 27th of July!!.. which would mean that its only been two weeks since I started bulking at the correct calories!.. And in that two week period my weight has changed from.............70.1kg to 71kg.. which is a difference of about 2.1lbs?..

This is potentially a load off my mind, but it depends on whether that's a significant enough change for two weeks??.. (btw, my weight training hasn't been anywhere near 100% intensity for the last week or so due to uni-stuff happening, more like 50-70% at best, but i do intend to go back into it 100% in 5/6days) If it is that means I basically just continue what I'm doing, may even drop the calories down slightly to between 2800 and 3000 and leave them there because I'd rather do a slow bulk and eat totally clean, anything over 3k cals and I think I'll struggle to keep it all clean!!..

Thanks for the help so far, I was kinda worried that I wasn't gonna make progress, and even though nothing's ACTUALLY changed in the last day, I feel more confident about it now!!..

p.s. I havn't ever taken any BodyFat readings! Tried once but broke the calipers and I can't really get anyone else to do it for me.. But I'd guess I'm around 16-20% body fat atm, scales told me something similar, but I don't keep track of it the same way I do with weight and calories, it's jst a lot harder so thats probably why!..
 
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I think that 2.1lbs is fine for 2 weeks progress when bulking. You do not want to put on the weight too quickly. It would help if you could get your BF% measured, ask at your gym and it may be free there and they will have their own calipers.

Do you have any pictures of where you are at now?
 
Bf

I actually don't have any pics atm.. It may be an idea to take some though, as a kind of before/after thing..
Even though I'm only going for a 15lb bulk, there will be some difference in muscle mass so that may be worth doing..
As for body fat, I shall get myself a pair of calipers and I'll try doing it!.. I workout at home so I don't really have access to a gym so can't get it done that way!..
I'll get down body fat, hopefully some 'before' pics, and also I've got some basic body measurements already down so I don't think there are any other stats/measurements I need?..
 
Is your aim to put on 15lbs of lean muscle or just 15lbs including the fat that will be gained during the bulk?

If you put on 15lbs you should see an easily noticeable difference. It will be hard though.
 
I'm not quite sure really - I was at first planning to bulk up to 180 inc any fat and then cut.. But then I thought that'd be a bit much for my frame (medium/small) and height (5'9) and I didn't want to look like I had a 'small-man' complex!..

So I decided finally to go for a bulk to 170lb inc any fat and then either bulk a bit more or just cut around 5lbs, depending on how I feel at 170!..
I know it's not gonna be easy, but I'm sure I'll get it, I'm fairly committed and I know (i think) what I'm doing to some degree!..
Wish me luck!
 
May I interject? How does one put on 15 lbs of pure lean muscle? Many say that bulking can't be done without picking up fat along the way, but I've heard of it being done. Daniel Craig, for example, put on 20lbs of solid muscle (no fat) for a movie.
 
good on you for having such great records and detail son yourself! it has let Dan help you...

please go to the avatar thread and tell us how you pikced that user name.... ahhhahhhhaaa

FF
 
SuperFob said:
May I interject? How does one put on 15 lbs of pure lean muscle? Many say that bulking can't be done without picking up fat along the way, but I've heard of it being done. Daniel Craig, for example, put on 20lbs of solid muscle (no fat) for a movie.
Click to expand...

Hi there, say to go from 150lb to 165lb with that 15lb all being pure lean muscle I shouldn't imagine you would be able to do that in one bulk (Unless you are freakishly amazing).

You could do it by bulking, then cutting and repeat this until you are at 165lb but your fat has stayed the same as when you were 150lb. This would need to be done through clean eating and being meticulous about your calorie intake and expenditure....Afterall that is what decides your fate!

That is why I was wondering if the OP intended to just be at the weight he specificed or if he wanted to be at that weight EVENTUALLY with it all being muscle, as for it to be muscle you would need to bulk then cut :)
 
DanHarris said:
Hi there, say to go from 150lb to 165lb with that 15lb all being pure lean muscle I shouldn't imagine you would be able to do that in one bulk (Unless you are freakishly amazing).

Also, just a by-the-way, I think it isn't made clear enough that, depending on your body-type cutting can be a b****!.. Because with me, I'm pretty certain that by the end of my bulk I'll have man boobs and a huge stomach and maybe a lard arse.. But even though cutting can get rid of the stomach fairly hassle free, maybe through just a week or two of cutting, I suspect losing a pair of funbags and a backside will take me a LOT longer, like maybe even a couple of months of cutting!.. That's how it was the first time I cut anyway, first 20lbs were basically from everywhere, most noticeable around the stomach, but the last 5-10lbs were when the arse n boobs really started to shrink n disappear!..

Just a thought!!.. Think that applies to me so I always factor that in my plan, don't know how relevant it is to everyone else!..
Click to expand...
 
Have you tried putting on the weight slower??

Out of interest how fast did you put it on during your last bulk and what did a typical day look like?
 
bulk

DanHarris said:
Have you tried putting on the weight slower??

Out of interest how fast did you put it on during your last bulk and what did a typical day look like?
Click to expand...

Erm well the last time I 'bulk'ed it wasn't so much a bulk as it was unconscious overeating!..
The average weight gain each week'd b about 1-2.5lb a week I'd guess.. I only mentioned the tits n arse thing cuz its relevant to me.. think its partly to do with my body type, and also the fact that im only 5'9/smaller than avg frame so any extra fat shows quite easily!.. rite nw my BF's gotta b pretty low cuz i can still see my abs a bit (startin 2 disappear!) and my arms n back are very taught.. bt now im like 'the hell with that'.. jus gna go nuts n then do a mad cut at the end! lol doing a no-holds-barred bulk!.. best way to go!..

And btw, I saw ya post summat sumwher abt workin out in the mornin, around 5ish or sumthin.. jus out of curiosity, hw did that work 4 ya?!.. ma family ar muslim so theyr doin the whole ramadan thing in like a month, so i MAY turn nocturnal and start working out at ungodly (no pun intended) hours.. but then them hours may b normal for me once i switch sleepin plans so i dunno if itl even make a difference?! anyway ne feedback on dat'd b gr8!
 
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