Fat loss while training

T

thekeyser22

0
I want to lower my body fat percentage dramatically and I know that while doing this, accumulating muscle mass is impossible.

If I go on eating at a deficit to lose fat mass, what can I do to prevent or limit muscle mass from decreasing?

What kind of effect would weight-training have while in a caloric deficit? I know that mass-building wouldn't happen, but will the muscles still improve in any way?
 
If you are a beginner at weight lifting, like absolute beginner, muscle gain and fat loss can occur simultaneously.

To limit the decrease of muscle mass, make sure you lift HARD. like, heavy weight low reps.
 
AZN_Dave said:
If you are a beginner at weight lifting, like absolute beginner, muscle gain and fat loss can occur simultaneously.

To limit the decrease of muscle mass, make sure you lift HARD. like, heavy weight low reps.
Click to expand...

Well, as much as I know that you are a frequent/respected member here, I have a feeling that's completely wrong. I've seen it stated multiple times in this forum and by many weightlifters/bodybuilders that you cannot build muscle mass while losing fat, ever. Besides, I've been on/off weight training since high school, so I wouldn't be an absolute beginner, wouldn't call myself and expert though. Maybe you're confusing fat loss with retained-water being expelled from your system due to increased activity which coincides with increased drinking of water, which is usually the first (and easiest) 10 pounds that you lose.

Does anybody else have another answer to my initial question? AZN says I have to do low reps heavy weights to prevent muscle loss while eating at a deficit... and what kind of benefit do my muscles receive when training without building mass (ie. not eating the extra protein to build mass because I'm on a diet to lose body fat)
 
Respectfully, I've read around, and been corrected as to the fact that, YES beginners do lose fat and gain muscles simultaneously because the body has never experienced such stimulus. Absolute beginners that is.
Body builders certainly would not be able to accomplish such a miracle as losing fat and gaining muscle at the same time. They have to bulk up and then cut down to look good for competition.


As to your questions about muscles improving in any way, I don't think so.
You certainly will not gain strength or size with a deficit diet in addition to other training to lose fat. Size and strength require excess calories.

THe reason I say you should lift hard, heavy weight, low reps, is that the heavy weight gives the body a reason to keep the muscle around. Otherwise, with a deficit diet and cardio training, the body goes into a starvation mode. In "starvation mode" the body eats muscle for fuel instead of fat because it is much easier to maintain fat than muscle. The body wants to be able to accomplish it's task with as few changes as possible. Lifting heavy weights makes your body realize "hey if I get rid of this muscle, I won't be able to do this anymore, I better keep it around"
 
With the above being said, it is impossible I tihnk to lose no muscle at all during a cut.

Generally what muscle you do lose can be put back on easily once you bulk again and you will lose much more fat.
 
aright, well thanks for that. I guess we'll really see what happens within the next few weeks, I won't mind experimenting.

I'm taking a mult-vit that's covering me for the lack of nutritious food intake. The only thing I don't neglect is my breakfast, which comes in at about 500 calories with a heavy emphasis on protein and some complex carbs. Lunch consists of a two scoop meal-replacement protein shake (with only water mixed) of about 250 calories while dinner is a mixed bag, but again consists mainly of protein, complex carbs and nutritious oils (olive oil, fish fat/oil in the meat, etc) which comes up to about 300-400 calories. I total up to about 1000 to 1200 calories a day with 40-40-20 percentage ratio on carbs, proteins and fat, respectively and do mainly maintenance weightlifting for physical activity (bout' 2 hours), and 40 minutes of biking back and forth to the gym with the occasional garden work that pops in every week and I work in a stock room at a furniture store (big heavy boxes).

Consider I'm a 5'9", 18-year-old male, currently weighing in at 172 pounds with a large frame (large shoulders: shoulders that would be in proportion with a 6-foot+ person).
 
Last edited:
thekeyser22 said:
aright, well thanks for that. I guess we'll really see what happens within the next few weeks, I won't mind experimenting.

I'm taking a mult-vit that's covering me for the lack of nutritious food intake. The only thing I don't neglect is my breakfast, which comes in at about 500 calories with a heavy emphasis on protein and some complex carbs. Lunch consists of a two scoop meal-replacement protein shake (with only water mixed) of about 250 calories while dinner is a mixed bag, but again consists mainly of protein, complex carbs and nutritious oils (olive oil, fish fat/oil in the meat, etc) which comes up to about 300-400 calories. I total up to about 1000 to 1200 calories a day with 40-40-20 percentage ratio on carbs, proteins and fat, respectively and do mainly maintenance weightlifting for physical activity (bout' 2 hours), and 40 minutes of biking back and forth to the gym with the occasional garden work that pops in every week and I work in a stock room at a furniture store.

Consider I'm a 5'9", 18-year-old male, currently weighing in at 172 pounds with a large frame (large shoulders: shoulders that would be in proportion with a 6-foot+ person).
Click to expand...

I'm not too knowledgable in nutrition, but 1200 is far too little I'm almost positive.

Right here is where my knowledge may not take you that far.
2000 would be an okay diet I would say as you'd probably be taking in at least 3000 some to bulk.

I have nearly the same height and weight as you do. I'm just under 5'10" and weigh 175. I would go at around 2000 to cut. ExRx.net: Estimated Calorie Requirements

The above is a calculator to see how many calories you need to sustain current body weight per day. Take that number and reduce by 400 maybe.

As I said I'm not too knowledgable in nutrition, but I'd say 1200 is too little, way too little. Wait for another response to verify or deny.
 
I use the weightlifting as energy burning activity, not to build, so I don't see 2 hours as that bad, I really prefer it to cardio
 
Keyser: Weight training for longer that (about) an hour is discouraged because around the one hour mark your body begins to produce cortisol. This hormone is secreted by the adrenal cortex in response to physical stress put on the body. Cortisol counteracts the effects of testosterone in the body.
 
AZN_Dave said:
To limit the decrease of muscle mass, make sure you lift HARD. like, heavy weight low reps.
Click to expand...

do you have a suggestion for reps/sets? how low?

this trainer i had awhile back suggested 3 sets of 15 reps on every machine + 20-30mins cardio/day for weight loss, while maintaining current muscle mass.

--matt
 
AZN_Dave said:
If you are a beginner at weight lifting, like absolute beginner, muscle gain and fat loss can occur simultaneously.

To limit the decrease of muscle mass, make sure you lift HARD. like, heavy weight low reps.
Click to expand...

100% correct, newbie gains can occur in a calorie deficit

Low reps high weight to limit muscle loss while in a deficit too.

thekeyser22 said:
aright, well thanks for that. I guess we'll really see what happens within the next few weeks, I won't mind experimenting.

I'm taking a mult-vit that's covering me for the lack of nutritious food intake. The only thing I don't neglect is my breakfast, which comes in at about 500 calories with a heavy emphasis on protein and some complex carbs. Lunch consists of a two scoop meal-replacement protein shake (with only water mixed) of about 250 calories while dinner is a mixed bag, but again consists mainly of protein, complex carbs and nutritious oils (olive oil, fish fat/oil in the meat, etc) which comes up to about 300-400 calories. I total up to about 1000 to 1200 calories a day with 40-40-20 percentage ratio on carbs, proteins and fat, respectively and do mainly maintenance weightlifting for physical activity (bout' 2 hours), and 40 minutes of biking back and forth to the gym with the occasional garden work that pops in every week and I work in a stock room at a furniture store (big heavy boxes).

Consider I'm a 5'9", 18-year-old male, currently weighing in at 172 pounds with a large frame (large shoulders: shoulders that would be in proportion with a 6-foot+ person).
Click to expand...

Your calories are too low, if you cut too many calories your body will be more likely to store fat. It's often called 'starvation mode', your body slows down your metabolism so it can function with such a large deficit. You'll start to feel lethargic, irritable and often have things like headaches.


Vitamin tablets can't replace nutritious food, the only reports I've ever read on vitamin tablets done by anyone other than suppliment retailers have said they're completely ineffective (waiting to be flamed by all you placebo popping yanks :)).
 
awesomeame said:
this trainer i had awhile back suggested 3 sets of 15 reps on every machine + 20-30mins cardio/day for weight loss, while maintaining current muscle mass.

--matt
Click to expand...

3 sets of 15 is light weight high reps.

I would do 5x5 90 second break. Don't use the machines. I guess if you're doing cable rows you can use the cable machines, but nothing else. Bicep, tricep, leg extension machines aren't good.
 
awesomeame said:
do you have a suggestion for reps/sets? how low?

this trainer i had awhile back suggested 3 sets of 15 reps on every machine + 20-30mins cardio/day for weight loss, while maintaining current muscle mass.

--matt
Click to expand...

Hopefully you're not still with him! Get off the machines for good, they're not optimal and they can cause injury. 3x15 as a rep range is pretty crappy too, a newbi should probably start on something like a 3x8-12
An example of a low rep routine would be 5x5 but some people go right down to 1 or 2 reps. The lowest I usually go is 5 though
 
CCR said:
An example of a low rep routine would be 5x5 but some people go right down to 1 or 2 reps. The lowest I usually go is 5 though
Click to expand...
thanks again!

Man, I feel so good when people say similar things as I do. haha, sometimes I think I might be wrong and I'm like "dammit, if this guy screws himself over cuz I told him the wrong thing..."
 
AZN_Dave said:
thanks again!

Man, I feel so good when people say similar things as I do. haha, sometimes I think I might be wrong and I'm like "dammit, if this guy screws himself over cuz I told him the wrong thing..."
Click to expand...
Lol, I thought that too, we must have been typing the same thing at the same time, I even had a bit in my post about the only machines you should use being those with cable but I deleted it in case it caused confusion (they all have cables somewhere in the mechanism)
 
CCR said:
I even had a bit in my post about the only machines you should use being those with cable but I deleted it in case it caused confusion (they all have cables somewhere in the mechanism)
Click to expand...

oh right, haha so you're right. Hmm, I assume he knows what I mean though.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top