Weights, HIIT, eat?

[gray17]

I generally lift, then do HIIT or cardio (if I did HIIT the day before). At what point should I eat? Right after my routine? An hour after HIIT (I heard it helps fat loss to wait to eat)? A protein shake after HIIT but still waiting an hour to eat? What will be most effective? Thanks
-gray

 

[davidjr74]

I generally lift, then do HIIT or cardio (if I did HIIT the day before). At what point should I eat? Right after my routine? An hour after HIIT (I heard it helps fat loss to wait to eat)? A protein shake after HIIT but still waiting an hour to eat? What will be most effective? Thanks
-gray

Pre-workout nutrition is important. Need the carbs for energy. Oatmeal for example.

Post-workout you need some quick protein. Look into whey protein shakes. Also could have Eggs, they have a high BV value.

I think after you workout you can also have simple carbs because it spikes insulin sensitivity which is good after a workout. <--unsure about statement though, needs confirm.

 

[SKMMAN]

What will be most effective?

Most effective for what? You should eat after your workout. If this is to manage your weight than you need more protein and less carbs, but if its for optimal glycogen replacement, then you need more carbs and still a good amount of protein for muscle repair and growth.

 

[Karky]

Pre-workout nutrition is important. Need the carbs for energy. Oatmeal for example.

Post-workout you need some quick protein. Look into whey protein shakes. Also could have Eggs, they have a high BV value.

I think after you workout you can also have simple carbs because it spikes insulin sensitivity which is good after a workout. <--unsure about statement though, needs confirm.

It doesnt spike insulin sensitivity, it spikes insuline, which is good after a long workout IF your body is going catabolic (starting to burn muscle for fuel).
Insulin carries the carbs and protein into the muscle, the muscle needs protein to start rebuilding and the muscle needs glycogen because you use up your glucogen during training. Insulin also counteracts cortisol which is a hormone that is released when you go catabolic.

To the OP
Remember though, this whole PWO thing is a bit hyped, but its not gonna hurt and as a beginner the whole PWO good or unessecary discussion is not something your ready to get into. Im just saying im aware that is a bit hyped so some guy doesnt come here flashing his fancy arguments and starts confusing you.
though if you do both weights and HIIT in the same session without rest and food in between, you probobly will go catabolic. Id just do weightlifting on the days you do weightlifting and cardio on rest days. (remember to keep atleast one day a week without any training though, atleast for now, its a good rule of thumb)

 

[Wrangell]

Pre-workout nutrition is important. Need the carbs for energy. Oatmeal for example.

Post-workout you need some quick protein. Look into whey protein shakes. Also could have Eggs, they have a high BV value.

I think after you workout you can also have simple carbs because it spikes insulin sensitivity which is good after a workout. <--unsure about statement though, needs confirm.

It's probably might be more accurate to say the focus should be on " high GI " carbs rather than simply saying ' simple carbs '.

Because in certain cases, complex carbs can have a high GI score and simple carbs can have a low GI score.

 

[Wrangell]

though if you do both weights and HIIT in the same session without rest and food in between, you probobly will go catabolic.

Id just do weightlifting on the days you do weightlifting and cardio on rest days. (remember to keep atleast one day a week without any training though, atleast for now, its a good rule of thumb)

Why would that be ' probable ' in your view ?

Is it because you think you would completely exhaust your glycogen stores ( assuming they are ' topped up ' ) by doing weight and HIIT back to back - thus causing your body to turn to muscle protein for energy ?

So for example, you do 1 hour of weights followed by 20 minutes of HIIT. I always assumed the average gym rat has about 1,800 glycogen / glucose calories available ( i.e in your muscles, liver, blood ). And this is just carb based calories - you're going to be burning some fat calories over the course of those 80 minutes as well...good for perhaps another 200 +/- calories ( I'm just guessing ). If your glycogen stores are ' topped up ', I suspect catabolism ( beyond what occurs under normal circumstances ) shouldn't be a major concern making it more of an unlikely event than a probable one .

Perhaps the key to not going catabolic by doing weights and HIIT together is simply a matter of making sure you much have your carb stores ' topped up ' before you start a weight / HIIT workout.

Welcome your thoughts.

 

[Karky]

then try it, and see how you feel without a quick "fix" of carbs and protein right after. Good luck.

Besides i dont think it works like that. you dont start feeding of muscle when your ALL out of glycogen and theres 0 glycogen in your muscles. It will probobly happen before that. Hell, ive started burning protein after an hour of jujitsu practice. How do i know you ask, i reeked of ammonia, which is a common sign that your body is breaking down protein, the breakdown leaves this substance that needs to get out of the body and you sweat it out and it smells BAD. And yes, i ate before i went.

You would think the body used this order: Carbs (from glycogen in muscle, liver, blood, etc.. what you just ate) then fat, then protein. But it doesnt really work that way.

 

[Wrangell]

then try it, and see how you feel without a quick "fix" of carbs and protein right after. Good luck.

Actually, I'm not disputing the benefits of PWO nutrition in any way.

But regardless of when you opt for PWO nutrition or not, I was simply wondering why you thought doing HIIT after weights would make it the case that " you probably will go catabolic "

Besides i dont think it works like that. you dont start feeding of muscle when your ALL out of glycogen and theres 0 glycogen in your muscles. It will probably happen before that.

That's why I asked.

Because it seemed that you were suggesting that doing HIIT after weights increases the likelihood you will be " feeding off muscle "...and if that enhanced probability isn't due to exhausted glycogen stores i.e " theres 0 glycogen in your muscles " I was just wondering what this increased probability is due to.

Hell, ive started burning protein after an hour of jujitsu practice. How do i know you ask, i reeked of ammonia, which is a common sign that your body is breaking down protein, the breakdown leaves this substance that needs to get out of the body and you sweat it out and it smells BAD. And yes, i ate before i went.

Eating before you workout is OK for your immediate glucose, amino acid levels levels etc., but given glycogen stores are only replentished at about 5 - 7% an hour, I think it is the impact of your eating habits over a 24 - 36 hour period that will better determine where your glycogen levels are ( i.e whether they're ' topped up ' ) and why you may appear to be burning protein during your training.

In don't know how many calories 1 hour of jujitsu burns up, but i suspect only 5% or so is actually sourcing amino acids for energy.

You would think the body used this order: Carbs (from glycogen in muscle, liver, blood, etc.. what you just ate) then fat, then protein. But it doesnt really work that way.

I never suggested it did.

 

[Karky]

well, the longer you exercise, the bigger the chanse is of feeding off muscle. You can usually get through 45-60 mins of weights before it happenes, but if you add 20-30 min HIIT after that, i dunno. Exactly when you start feeding off muscle is a very individual thing.

Im not bothering to get into the whole HIIT catabolic, cortisol **** discussion with you, you already had it with buzz, go read that post over again. Dont argue with something that makes sence just for the sake of arguing. Anyone can question anyone, the question is, can you come up with any answers, or can you just question?

 

[gray17]

If I don't smell like ammonia I'm good then? I think I'll just stick with my plain tuna and bread for post. I may mix it up, whether I eat right after or an hour after my workout.
Thanks for all the help
-gray

 

[Wrangell]

well, the longer you exercise, the bigger the chanse is of feeding off muscle. You can usually get through 45-60 mins of weights before it happenes, but if you add 20-30 min HIIT after that, i dunno. Exactly when you start feeding off muscle is a very individual thing.

I would agree with you - it is an individual thing.

And the risk of losing muscle would depend on a lot of different things. Like exercise duration, intensity - and what we were discussing - whether you have fuel adequate fuel (* i,e glycogen ) stores.

All I'm saying is that within this context, assuming someone is adequately fueled, I can't see any reason why one can't do HIIT after weight training. I don't want to the OP to think that just because he does HIIT after weights, he's going to significantly increase the risk he's going to turn to muscle as fuel.

Im not bothering to get into the whole HIIT catabolic, cortisol **** discussion with you, you already had it with buzz, go read that post over again.

I recall that discussion - and Buzz also said one shouldn't do HIIT after weights for issues pertaining to enhanced risks of muscle loss. Again, none of his explanations were able to adequately support his claim either.

Dont argue with something that makes sence just for the sake of arguing.

Not at all. You simply claimed that " if you do both weights and HIIT in the same session without rest and food in between, you probobly will go catabolic ( starting to burn muscle for fuel ).

I simply asked you why you felt that " made sense ", because in my view, in most cases, it shouldn't be an issue for the average gym rat that does weights followed by HIIT....for the reasons I've already stated.

Anyone can question anyone, the question is, can you come up with any answers, or can you just question?

Couldn't agree more.

That's all I was interested in - whether you could provide ' an answer ' explaining why you made the claim you did.