a fitness specialist told me this.

R

realworksuks

2
The fitness specialist at my college is a 30 year old guy that is in extremely good shape.

I've been cutting weight for a few months. I recently had my body fat tested by him and it was 9.3 percent. I'm 5 8 and 1/2 feet tall and 142.5 pounds. I read on this site everywhere that it was impossible to lose fat and gain muscle at the same time.

He told me the opposite when I was getting my BF tested about a week ago. He told me that if I changed my diet and continued training I could do it. He said that I should eat protein, fruits veggies, and "good fats". He said then I could lose the fat and then gain the muscle. I don't know who to trust here.

It seems to me like he could be right about this. I've been thinking about it a lot lately. I know people on this website say that "if you want to subtract you can't add at the same time". It would seem to me that if you ate some good protein after your workout your body would start building muscle right after the workout. Instead of waiting until the end of the day and saying "okay, did he have a caloric excess for the day? Yes? Ok let's make some muscle" You'd think the body would just start building up muscle right away, instead of assessing the situation on a day to day basis.

Discuss.
 
I will break it down in simple terms for your "fitness specialist"

When one is "Cutting" - they enter into a caloric deficit to lose fat and the material for growth is not present.

Simple enough?
 
~LV~ said:
I will break it down in simple terms for your "fitness specialist"

When one is "Cutting" - they enter into a caloric deficit to lose fat and the material for growth is not present.

Simple enough?
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I think that he meant it's possible if i'm eating maintance calories or somewhere around there. So does that change anything?

Ok so if i'm going to cut and since I supposedly can't gain muscle at the same time should I just stop lifting weights or what? Cuz it seems useless to do if it doesn't do anything..

What if I just had a caloric excess on the days that I lift, wouldn't that be a great way to lose fat and gain muscle? I guess a good question is when does the body build up the muscle after you are done working out?
 
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after a work out, the muscle continues to grow for the next 48hours, so that is why having a day off after each workout is a godd idea. Your fitness teacher is right, this is why some people who are trying to lose weight mention that they have actually gained more weight! even though they have lost fat, they have also gained more muscle, which is heavier of course.
 
realworksuks said:
What if I just had a caloric excess on the days that I lift, wouldn't that be a great way to lose fat and gain muscle? I guess a good question is when does the body build up the muscle after you are done working out?
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No, not a good way. Your body is repairing and recovering from your workout whenever you aren't working out, including the days after you workout, so you still need to feed your body. Your caloric intake can change a little, but a significant amount wouldn't be ideal.

It is possible like mreik said, just very very tough.

Please don't take offense to this as it not meant in a negative way, but if your body fat is pretty low already (9.3%) and your weight is only 142.5...why are you so focused on "cutting" or trying to build muscle and lose fat. I would really say that you should be focusing on putting on weight and muscle, not so much cutting right now.
 
in one of my other topics I said that I gained 7 pounds during spring break vacation (it was actually five though) and I want to cut all that off plus get around 6 % body fat before I start to bulk. I probably won't get there, but by this summer i'm going to start to bulk.

Even when I was down to 9.3 percent body fat I still had too much fat for me around my stomach. When we did the pincher test all other areas of the body were at a low number (5-9). My abdominal area still had a number of 15, too high for me.

what about these other 2 questions that I asked

I think that he meant it's possible if i'm eating maintance calories or somewhere around there. So does that change anything?

Ok so if i'm going to cut and since I supposedly can't gain muscle at the same time should I just stop lifting weights or what? Cuz it seems useless to do if it doesn't do anything..
 
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realworksuks said:
Ok so if i'm going to cut and since I supposedly can't gain muscle at the same time should I just stop lifting weights or what? Cuz it seems useless to do if it doesn't do anything..
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It will help retain the muscle you currently have while cutting so keep with the weights. The last thing you want to do is lose that harn earned muscle.
 
realworksuks said:
will it help me get more toned or anything else? or just help maintain?
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Becoming toned is a function of holding on to lean mass while losing fat. Holding on to lean mass will require the muscles to be stimulated with weight training. As your bodyfat decreases your muscles will appear, given they are developed, to give you a toned look so the answer to your question is yes.
 
mreik said:
Possible? IMO yes. Hard? Definitely.
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What he said. DAMNED HARD.
And at SOME point, pretty early in the game, you will only wind up doing ONE. I think early on, you can do both, but eventually, like LV was saying, that calorie deficit is going to catch up to you, so your gains will stop. Or your appetite will get the best of you, and you will gain and not cut.
 
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5'8" at 150 lbs? Are you sure that you're just not lacking muscle rather than just having fat? I ask because I've seen guys taller and skinnier and they want to cut because they don't have a 6 pack and what they're really lacking is more muscle that they need.

Go to Testosterone Nation and look up the Carb Cycling Codes which Thib talks about losing fat and gaining muscle at teh same time.

You seem to want this "if I just eat X kcals for X hours then I'm all good and then I just X kcals for X hours and I'll be good."
 
Yea this is strange, because I am 5'8" and I weigh 162LBS and I have maintained that for a while now while doing the NROL, but my body sure has changed for the better. I am staying away the scale, I just happen to check it on Friday but before that was 2 months ago. Anyway, 142LBS sounds very lite, I mean I am a walking stick figure at 162lbs. I will be following this and trying to alter my diet for the better, I was just sitting down to come up with a meal plan and go to the grocery store after work.


Why don't you post some pics for the guys to check out on the Photo area, let them give you some advice. Remember the guys on here are not getting paid, they simply give advice because they LOVE to do this and they are good guys by sharing their gained knowledge (Guys/and Ladies)

Their advice has worked for me and it gets me motivated when I falter from my routine.
 
i'm actually 5 8 1/2 at 144 pounds this morning (I was down to 139 no more than a month ago). I really wish I had some pictures of myself back in high school. I was 160 pounds and lifted all the time. I had to have had a calorie excess because I remember eating all the time. I probably lost most of my muscle when I stopped lifting for about a year.

Like I said all parts of my body look good except for my stomach (also not satisfied with my thighs). But those are the two parts i'm not satisfied with. If I can cut the fat from those areas and then bulk I think that'll be the best course of action.

Regardless though, whatever happens i'll start trying to build some muscle around May 15th.
 
well , when i started workin out a few years back......i had a workout buddy who dint wanna bulk up (and gain extra fat) he just worked out, ate right, and did some cardio. Over a period of a year or so, he prolly gained MAYBE a few pounds of lean mass.

While me, i decided to bulk up, cut, bulk , cut .. etc..... and my results were ALOT more visible than his. (not to sound concieted)

i dont agree with ur fitness guru
 
here is a good explanation by lyle mcdonald

Gaining muscle while losing fat: The Newbie effect

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Ok, since this seems to come up with some regularity, here are my thoughts on it. I had made a post to mfw a long time bck but it's faster to just retype it here than try to dig through google groups.

The basic question that continues to come up is "How come newbies can gain muscle and lose fat but more advanced guys can't."

First and foremost, I want to point out that only fat newbies can accomplish this, lean guys are not going to lean out significantly while gaining muscle. And I think this points us partly in the right direction.

Way back when, when I first got on the track of leptin (oh, about 98 I think), a lot of what leptin was doing (and note that leptin is related to bodyfat levels) seemed to explain at least part of this. Leptin turned out to be the big missing middle puzzle piece that I"d been looking for for about 10 years.

So consider a fat untrained individual. Because of all of the bodyfat they are carrying, there are a bunch of adapations that have occurred which, given the right stimulus, is going to make them *more effectively* mobilize fat for fuel. I know I"ve discussed this before but now expect a zillion and one questions.

But when you look at that actual adaptations in terms of whole body (especially fat cell) insulin resistance, it's clear that they occur in an attempt to limit further fat gain/help with fat loss once the excess calories are removed. The fat cells are resistant to insulin (meaning insulin can't be anti-lipolytic) leptin would be limiting food intake if the brain weren't resistant, leptin is trying to push fatty acid oxidation (except that muscle is alos resistant), there are tons of fatty acids n the bloodstream just waiting to be burned, &c. So even in the face of high insulin or whatever, fatty acids can be mobilize for fuel.

Read that last sentence again, especially given the role of insulin in muscle growth.

So I think that's the first part of the story. The body is primed to use a lot of fat for fuel under those conditions. Going back to 98, this is actually what led me to leptin, trying to figure out why fatter people can lose fat with less LBM loss compared to lean. So I started looking at the differences physiologically in fat people vs. lean people. And kept coming back to leptin (which I'd been deliberately ignoring for years). Which turns out to be part (but certainly not the entire picture). But I digress.

But it's not the whole story. The other part of it and at this point I get way off into speculation land I think has to do with being relatively more untrained. Everybody knows that beginners respond better to training than anybody else. Primarily because they are so far from their genetic potential. They have more 'room to grow' to put it one way. This is true of everything, first year of any training is when you will make the most massive gains, unless you're training is retarded. And as you get closer to your genetic limits, things start to level off and you reach an asymptote.

And I think that the two factors together are what allow it to happen.

You're in a situation where
a. muscle can be gained quite easily
b. fat can be lost quite easily

Because both are so far below (in the case of muscle) or above (in the case of fat) genetic limits. That's on top of all the hormonal/energetic stuff going on when you're fat. The body is trying to push fatty acids away from storage and towards fat oxidation, even in the face of a relatively anabolic hormonal state.

But a fat but trained individual doesn't have both factors going no. They may have plenty of fat to lose but they don't have a ton of muscle to gain. No newbie effect.

A semi-lean but muscular individual has to drop insulin to mobilize/burn fat for fuel at any effective rate. Which limits their anabolic potential (and this is ignoring all of the stuff going on in the muscle with AMPk and protien synthesis and all that crap). They can lose fat but they can't gain muscle at the same time.

And, in a muscle gaining mode, you're in a net anabolic state anyhow. You can't lose fat and gain muscle at the same time for the most part.

Now quit asking me about this.
 
mreik said:
Possible? IMO yes. Hard? Definitely.
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agreed. what your 'fitness guru' is stating way too vaguely is that you can slowly add a little muscle, and slowly burn fat at the same time. its typically referred to as a 'body recomposition' program, rather than bulking or cutting.

its also miserably slow...you likely would see a change in weight so small, it'll frustrate you into giving up.
 
yeah. Most people just find it more convenient to just bulk up and cut down. However, you dont have to do the "tradidonal bulk" you could bulk more slowly, which makes for a shorter cutting period.
 
well, I've been "cutting" since sept. , and I was doing just cardio up untill feb. ever since I've been weight training with a caloire deficit, and I can tell you that I am a heck of alot stronger than before. Both visibly and practicially. Keep in mind that I had never strength trained in my life, and that this is the first real muscle to be put on me.
 
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nickorette said:
well, I've been "cutting" since sept. , and I was doing just cardio up untill feb. ever since I've been weight training with a caloire deficit, and I can tell you that I am a heck of alot stronger than before. Both visibly and practicially. Keep in mind that I had never strength trained in my life, and that this is the first real muscle to be put on me.
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what the above poster said it true for me as well. But I have strength trained before.

Before I ask this question I just want to say i'm not argueing with you; I believe you guys.

So, since I have started weight training a few months ago I have seen massive amounts of my strength come back, perhaps even above what I ever use to be. I have had a calorie defecit the whole time though. So If I am not gaining any muscle, how is it that I am getting stronger?
 
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