T- Nation article on female training

Some of you may have seen this already.

This article written by Chad Waterbury is slightly controversial but can certainly explain why some women here feel that although their bf goes down their clothes feel tighter in some places.

I'll give it a go in the new year and if nothing else it will at least introduce some variety to my routine.

Testosterone Nation - Sexy Female Training
 
That is one looooooooooong article @.@ Thanks for sharing it. Makes me think deeper into my routine. I prolly tweak it now after reading through (yes, I did finish reading it...) the article :)
 
I shredded Waterbury and that program for a very good reason.

He uses a boatload of logical fallacies to support that he's right, when the end result is some dumbass toning program that comes right out of Shape.

Try it if you want, but don't expect magic.
 
I also had my doubts first but I also read all the discussion pages that followed it and it got me convinced there might be something to it.

It makes a lot of sense as it tells you which muscles to concentrate on. My legs have a lot of muscle already from heavy squats and dealifts so I probably don't need any more there. I suppose I can do with a little bit more in the glutes and definitely bigger shoulders to balance my body.

I also felt that Waterbury is right when he says that we shouldn't be using same excercises to make our thighs smaller that men use to make theirs bigger. I stoped lifting for 2 weeks as I didn't have time to go to the gym and did 30 min jogging sessions instead. Result -- I lost 0.5 inch in each thigh and lost 1.5% body fat. So I suppose I lost fat. Even if I lost little muscle from my legs I'm not complaning they look much better and I fit into skinny jeans.

I will start this regimen in January and will report. If nothing else I think that variety is good and I also think the flip diet will work for me as well as I tend to do very well on low carb.
 
It makes a lot of sense as it tells you which muscles to concentrate on. My legs have a lot of muscle already from heavy squats and dealifts so I probably don't need any more there. I suppose I can do with a little bit more in the glutes and definitely bigger shoulders to balance my body.

Try it and tell me how well that works out for you.

I also felt that Waterbury is right when he says that we shouldn't be using same excercises to make our thighs smaller that men use to make theirs bigger. I stoped lifting for 2 weeks as I didn't have time to go to the gym and did 30 min jogging sessions instead. Result -- I lost 0.5 inch in each thigh and lost 1.5% body fat. So I suppose I lost fat. Even if I lost little muscle from my legs I'm not complaning they look much better and I fit into skinny jeans.

And you controlled for the observed detraining effects on body comp/muscle growth?

You also controlled for simple inflammation that occurs from weight training, and can contribute to size measurements?

Exercises alone don't contribute to size or to cutting. Exercises apply stress to muscle, which sends a signal to grow and/or not to shrink (there are hypertrophy and atrophy signals). Do more, you signal growth. Do less, you signal against atrophy.

There's a reason I shredded his rationale; for what it's worth, the figure competitors I work with do 5x5 routines.
 
I'm not here to argue about this article. I haven't tried this type of working out and diet combo so I cannot form an opinion.

What I can form an opinion about is that I followed what this forum genrally recommends for about a year now, tweaking some things, changing my weightlifting, increasing weight steadily, doing HIIT, changing nutrition macros, calorie levels... I can go on and on about how many different variations and changes I have tried to bust through a plateau and finally get where I want to be. I can say it didn't work for me and my achievement is very small which is undertsandably very discouraging.

I think this is a trial and error process to find what works for you as an individual and this is why I'm going to give this a go. If it dosn't work I haven't lost anything but if it does then great.

I would agree that recommendations on this site are great for most women who are trying to lose weight, look more toned. I suppose I just want a certain look. Anyway, I'll keep you posted if it works.
 
I will start this regimen in January and will report. If nothing else I think that variety is good and I also think the flip diet will work for me as well as I tend to do very well on low carb.[/QUOTE]

i think the flip diet 10 x your weight= intake cals is unhealthy. esp if u r smaller.
 
gosh. This article is not for you if you want to lift a heavy DL or anything. alot of people have shredded this because of that. but you gotta understand its a program for someone with the goals of looking sexy, nothing more, not being functional strong or whatever. And this is something he says very clearly.
 
gosh. This article is not for you if you want to lift a heavy DL or anything. alot of people have shredded this because of that. but you gotta understand its a program for someone with the goals of looking sexy, nothing more, not being functional strong or whatever. And this is something he says very clearly.

so youre saying you cant look sexy and be functionally strong?? :):eek:

lol i beg to differ ;)
:D
 
yeah but he didnt put enough confidence behind that :) so i had to give him crap :):rolleyes:
say it like ya mean it! :)

:p
all i was saying was that i am both ;) lol
 
gosh. This article is not for you if you want to lift a heavy DL or anything. alot of people have shredded this because of that. but you gotta understand its a program for someone with the goals of looking sexy, nothing more, not being functional strong or whatever. And this is something he says very clearly.

The problem is that anatomy doesn't work that way.

But physiology always wins; if you think this will work for you, be my guest.
 
so youre saying you cant look sexy and be functionally strong?? :):eek:

lol i beg to differ ;)
:D

oh god, where did i say that? PLEASE!

This article is for you who just cares about looks and not strenght. this program will not make you very strong, its designed to make you sexy.

i did never say you cant be strong and sexy. Gosh, whats with people?

Its just like for guys, you can be small and strong, you can be hyooge and weak and you can be hyooge and strong as hell too.

and say it like i mean it? i dident put enough confidence behind my post? what is up with that? If you want, go and ask Chad himself.
Im not theone whos suppose to "mean" this, im just echoing chad himself.

Im so sick of people bashing programs because it doesnt fit their needs. If it dont fit you're needs, dont do it. If you dont think it will work for you, then dont do it. Its pretty simple.

I dont bash every size only program i see just because i care more about strenght.
 
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Here is my beef to pick with it Karky(and others), but more than welcome your side on the subject.

This program and article misses the boat on a few things and doesn't take into account some others. If a 24 yr old 5'5 115 pound girl came to me and wanted to "tone" and had never worked out before, then her program would be something like this with a light deficit and focus on whole food eating. Reason being is her body structure, genetics and metabolism are what is suited for a workout scenario like this because she is dubbed more or less genetically sexy gifted.

However if a 24 yr old 5'5 175 pound girl came to me and wanted this style of body, that is not the program that is going to give it to her, and she may just not have the genes to achieve it at all. If she had the kind of lifestyle and genes for this style of body easily, then she wouldn't be at the point she is now. Added that program will lead her to a quick plateau.

The Brittney Spears ab thing is just a silly example really being that age plays a huge factor in womens hips and abs widening, however I do agree with if you want a sexy slim waist that isn't wide don't over train the obliques and don't add weights to your ab workouts. Achieving more elongated muscles is also merely adding a proper post lifting stretching routine to let your fascia stretch and allow growth for your muscles. This is a big reason why naturally smaller girls are drawn to yoga, but at the same time larger women will plateau to quickly and won't lose the needed body fat or get the proper shaping from a program that delicate.

I personally have no problem with women wanting a that typical slim "sexy" body as I have helped girls achieve that, however most women who will want to do this plan because they don't have it, this won't work to get it. I am personally not one of those women who naturally had that style of body, but I barbell squatted my way to get there as close as possible as having a sexy femme but strong body is of desire to me. I focus on proper stretching, Strong lifting sessions while in a deficit as I am getting shape and well butt lifting changes without adding alot of extra muscle and am slowly changing to the best of my bodies ability and with a smart training focus, how I am supposed to look.

So I get where he is coming from and understand and agree with alot of it, that is however if it was targeted to just a small amount of women that are ALREADY small trying to "tone" their bodies.
 
yeah if you have constructive critisism against the program, i got nothing against it. Its not for me, and i wont try it. Aslong as you dont say its crap because it doesnt make you functional or strong or whatever :)
 
Here is my beef to pick with it Karky(and others), but more than welcome your side on the subject.

This program and article misses the boat on a few things and doesn't take into account some others. If a 24 yr old 5'5 115 pound girl came to me and wanted to "tone" and had never worked out before, then her program would be something like this with a light deficit and focus on whole food eating. Reason being is her body structure, genetics and metabolism are what is suited for a workout scenario like this because she is dubbed more or less genetically sexy gifted.

However if a 24 yr old 5'5 175 pound girl came to me and wanted this style of body, that is not the program that is going to give it to her, and she may just not have the genes to achieve it at all. If she had the kind of lifestyle and genes for this style of body easily, then she wouldn't be at the point she is now. Added that program will lead her to a quick plateau.

The Brittney Spears ab thing is just a silly example really being that age plays a huge factor in womens hips and abs widening, however I do agree with if you want a sexy slim waist that isn't wide don't over train the obliques and don't add weights to your ab workouts. Achieving more elongated muscles is also merely adding a proper post lifting stretching routine to let your fascia stretch and allow growth for your muscles. This is a big reason why naturally smaller girls are drawn to yoga, but at the same time larger women will plateau to quickly and won't lose the needed body fat or get the proper shaping from a program that delicate.

I personally have no problem with women wanting a that typical slim "sexy" body as I have helped girls achieve that, however most women who will want to do this plan because they don't have it, this won't work to get it. I am personally not one of those women who naturally had that style of body, but I barbell squatted my way to get there as close as possible as having a sexy femme but strong body is of desire to me. I focus on proper stretching, Strong lifting sessions while in a deficit as I am getting shape and well butt lifting changes without adding alot of extra muscle and am slowly changing to the best of my bodies ability and with a smart training focus, how I am supposed to look.

So I get where he is coming from and understand and agree with alot of it, that is however if it was targeted to just a small amount of women that are ALREADY small trying to "tone" their bodies.


Exactly!

It's not for beginners, and an advanced girl will already be close to this if she's been training and is capable of it.

It's for maintenance of parts, but it's specialization.

The whole thing is a contradiction in terms, and the reason it pisses me off so much is because it's straight out of Shape or Oxygen, and it confuses women who already have enough misinformation to deal with. As someone that works with females, I have to say it's hard enough to deprogram them as it is.

If you're untrained and need to drop fat/"tone" : You should be doing a strength-based program with heavy weights, adjusting the diet and volume of work to control weight and body comp.

If you're advanced and need to drop fat/"tone" : You should be doing a strength-based program with heavy weights, adjusting the diet and volume of work to control weight and body comp.

I realize the program is oriented around muscle "shaping" and so forth; to emphasize some parts and de-emphasize others. That's fine in concept; bodybuilders can do it to some degree with specialization plans. In practice? We get 50-rep sets of idiocy. Some tard in the thread told me that its because the program is for maintenance of muscle, not development. Evidently he doesn't know what specialization means.

Waterbury and his Nuthuggers all tapdanced around the actual question of whether or not it would even do anything, and would only answer direct questions with more circular arguments.

As I said, I have my figure competitors doing 5x5, unless they just have glaring proportion issues. I add extra bodypart work as needed, but the main focus is on diet. The strength-training only serves to maintain the muscle (some even build it in the first stages).

Perhaps those missing the reason for the backlash should consider the original premise: Men and women should train the same way. When the article afterwards rejects that entire idea, something's likely not right.
 
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