How do people get like this....I'm sure you will recognise this person

Hoss · Oct 17, 2006

Huge muscles are the effects of roids, why the traps would be any differerent? They contain the exact number of androgen receptors as any other muscle. Even look in the quote you posted ''...effects of training...'' meaning?? People can natrually have large traps. I've seen skinny people who's bone structure is just made for it, all they'd have to do is lift and eat.

That's buldging over?!?! Oh man, google ronnie coleman. Believe me that's not buldging, some men have large hips, me included.. Even under 8%bf I still am a 32" waist.. Genetics..

People's lymphnodes can cause those wrinkles you're seeing.. Heck, even a little extra bf can cause that.

Markus Leon · Oct 17, 2006

Eh.. yea... great example there, because ronnie aswell only maybe used GH right?

mreik said:
Huge muscles are the effects of roids, why the traps would be any differerent? They contain the exact number of androgen receptors as any other muscle.

No thats wrong. Trapezius contain significantly more receptors and the number increase significantly at AAS use ->monstertraps

Elle · Oct 23, 2006

steroids turn men into freakin monsters.. guys who train clean just look much more 'natural' and less of a freakshow than the other bunch.

i think it's more gross than attractive.. especially wihout a decent mug to take away from the hulkish look (ie most of the WWE guys)

Chief275 · Oct 23, 2006

If you know the demands of WWE superstars, then you would know that it is AMAZING that they can stay in that good of shape. Those guys are on the road traveling 70% of the year, doing shows probably 5 nights a week, and getting the crap beat out of their bodies, on top of trying to stay in elite "muscular" form. Chances are, alot of them rely on some sort of supplementation to keep them healthy and in peak form.

Also, alot of those guys just have HUGE frames to begin with. That guy Batista just got into wrestling recently, and he's in his late 30's. Triple H started working out as a teenager, and there are photos of him when he was 14 entering bodybuilding competitions. His nose was the same size, but everything else was much scrawnier. Long story short - Genetics, Hard work, and a little bit of "help".

Cynic · Oct 23, 2006

LeiYunFat said:
Eat right, train hard, and take steroids.

Yep, most guys have distended bellys.

I consider that a good sign of steroids.

The smarter users can manage it wisely to avoid the negative effects, or at least turn control of management over to an unbiased, intelligent third party.

Fly · Oct 23, 2006

What the hell are 'distended bellies'?

Hoss · Oct 23, 2006

Markus Leon said:
Eh.. yea... great example there, because ronnie aswell only maybe used GH right?

No thats wrong. Trapezius contain significantly more receptors and the number increase significantly at AAS use ->monstertraps

...I forgot about this thread. Show me a study that says the traps have more androgen receptors/mucle cell. And AAS usage down-regulates receptors, it surely does't up regulate them.

I know lots of people who can have abs and won't be under a 36" waist, and they've never touched GH. So before you go putting someone under the gun, know what you're speaking about.

Hoss · Oct 23, 2006

Cynic said:
I consider that a good sign of steroids.

AAS usage does not cause a protruding midsection. Peptides such as IGF1 hGH and MGF do.

Markus Leon · Oct 23, 2006

mreik said:
...I forgot about this thread. Show me a study that says the traps have more androgen receptors/mucle cell. And AAS usage down-regulates receptors, it surely does't up regulate them.

I know lots of people who can have abs and won't be under a 36" waist, and they've never touched GH. So before you go putting someone under the gun, know what you're speaking about.

Here you go:
Kadi F, P Bonnerud, A Eriksson, L-E Thornell. "The expression of androgen receptors in human neck and limb muscles: effects of training and self-administration of andogenic anabolic steroids" Histochem Biol, 2000c 113:25-29

You are the one who obviously doesnt know what you're speaking about

Hoss · Oct 23, 2006

Markus Leon said:
Here you go:
Kadi F, P Bonnerud, A Eriksson, L-E Thornell. "The expression of androgen receptors in human neck and limb muscles: effects of training and self-administration of andogenic anabolic steroids" Histochem Biol, 2000c 113:25-29

You are the one who obviously doesnt know what you're speaking about

That says nothing. 'The expression of androgen receptors in the human neck and limb'?!?! Wtf? Okay so even if somehow, out of that sentence, you get that there's a HIGER concentration of ARs they speak of the limbs to. Which are the legs and arms, so can you have 'steroid arms'? lol....

What if someone has a natrually high test level, which isn't rare. Say 950ng/dl?? They automatically take steroids, because of their steroid arms, and neck, and legs... ?

Markus Leon · Oct 23, 2006

mreik said:
That says nothing. 'The expression of androgen receptors in the human neck and limb'?!?! Wtf? Okay so even if somehow, out of that sentence, you get that there's a HIGER concentration of ARs they speak of the limbs to. Which are the legs and arms, so can you have 'steroid arms'? lol....

What if someone has a natrually high test level, which isn't rare. Say 950ng/dl?? They automatically take steroids, because of their steroid arms, and neck, and legs... ?

What do you mean 'that saying nothing' - its the title if you havent figured it out yet, go read the study before you criticize it.

Hoss · Oct 23, 2006

Where do you want me to read it, I'm not searching for it. You can post it.

Markus Leon · Oct 23, 2006

Are you serious

Hoss · Oct 23, 2006

Okay I found your 1 paragraph study.

So they compared people who lift and take steroids to people who don't lift or take steroids.

Hmmm. They have a higher AR concentration in the people that lift and take steroids as opposed to the people who don't lift or take steroids.

It must be the steroids? Nice conclusion.. lol, neglect the fact that the other participants didn't even lift. WHICH has shown repeatedly (not just once) that, that alone will increase the #AR/cell. So your point is disproven.

Markus Leon · Oct 23, 2006

Ok... you're obviously confused. What you found was the publicly available abstract. When you asked for a study I assumed you had an account at Pubmed.

Hoss · Oct 23, 2006

It still applies, even if I only got the summary. Because it was a summary of the article you're reffering to. Funny how you say Im confused but offer no response to my point. Enjoy the day.

Markus Leon · Oct 23, 2006

Ok then. You havent even read the study but still want to discuss, sure lets.

mreik said:
So they compared people who lift and take steroids to people who don't lift or take steroids.

ehhhh... no.
You didnt even bother o read the abstract I take it

They found no differences in vastus lateralis in the study. However there was a difference in trapetzius between all three groups. This shows that:
1. the occurrence of androgenreceptors varies in different muscles (something you said is wrong)
2. they increase in some muscles but not in other when using AAS. In trapetzius the increase is significant.

Its not even something to discuss. just read what it says.

aevans410 · Oct 23, 2006

OK... I'm gonna bust a few of your bubbles.

Vince.. Roid city.. He got that big in a matter of 2 years.. come on...
Triple H... Roids... he was huge, came back after a 6 month layoff for a leg injury, and when he came back he looked deflated. It seemed to be more than atrophy at work.
Batista.. Im not sure of, but most of them juice, he probably does too.

Look at Chris Masters, hes a lot smaller too since he had a layoff, maybe they're ridding the federation of the juice.

Hoss · Oct 24, 2006

Markus Leon said:
Ok then. You havent even read the study but still want to discuss, sure lets.

ehhhh... no.
You didnt even bother o read the abstract I take it

They found no differences in vastus lateralis in the study. However there was a difference in trapetzius between all three groups. This shows that:
1. the occurrence of androgenreceptors varies in different muscles (something you said is wrong)
2. they increase in some muscles but not in other when using AAS. In trapetzius the increase is significant.

Its not even something to discuss. just read what it says.

If you read my other post I phrased it better; it's not caused by steroids, lifting will cause that. So for the AR# to increase you would have to of been on steroids for a very long time? So now we're getting into the nit picky shmit. I'm done here.

evolution · Oct 24, 2006

Markus, in the study it also stated this "In the trapezius, the proportion of AR-containing myonuclei was higher in P compared to U". Sooooo...the study says that those who trained without AAS also had a greater expression of ARs=bigger traps does not automatically mean AAS usage.