Why are bone thin women & men depicted as the 'ideal' of beauty in America?

Titanic Explore

Titanic Explore

New member
It seems prior to 1975, women who were full figured were concidered beautiful and sexy- Be it sex symbles such as Marilyn Monroe, Mamie Van Doren or Betty Page, or any of the curvy women in any given Russ Meyer or Hammer film...They were sexy- But now it seems society tells women they must not have an ounce of fat-and minimal curves- in order to be concidered beautiful. Such fataphobic people must regard every sex symbol prior to 1970 as being fat......
kate Winslet defended the beauty of women with some weight, as she had some at one time- even though she has really thinned out...
Who decided that women must be anorexic thin to be concidered beaitiful?
Is there somthing wrong with me drawn to women who like me, have extra pading? I debated this with a friend- he only goes after women who are pencil thin, and asserted only thin is sexy.......

How about men- you don't see too many male sex symbols who are overweigt- I suppose Jack Black- But he's just a very funny guy..
 
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Personally, I don't care for bone thin, fragile looking women.

The fashion and cosmetics industry has a lot to do with altering our perceptions of beauty, for the worse I believe.

I'll take a strong woman any day of the week.
 
Actually Betty Paige was very tiny I think I read somewhere that her measurements were 35-24-35. Jessica Simpson and Beyonce' & Jennifer Lopez.... Hallie Berry.... are curvy. I think these women are just lucky enough to have curves in the right places so they don't appear stick thin. But there is no way you could pinch an inch around their waistline.
I don't think that most men would pick a woman who looks like Nichole Richie over any of the above mentioned ladies.
 
Ha! Jack Black aint no sex symbol!!

True, he might have more gratuitous sex than us, but thats just because he is famous, not sexy. That said he gives great hope to potential future "non-hollywood sexy" performers like myself and is my hero! But enough of that.

I get this question all the time in China. "Why in the movies and TV shows is EVERYONE in america so skinny, yet most of the foreigners who come here are so fat?"

I explain to them that almost 70% of the western population these days does NOT look like the people in the movies at all. Hollywood for some reason has decided for us that skinny is attractive and fat is ugly. And as a society, we bought in. We supported them all the way and have justified their opinions by buying into it without a word of complaint. We buy those DVD's and see the movies, we vote online for the "sexiest" in America, we dont speak up about the hurting it is really causing us. Our silence condems us. We choose to let them hurt us.

And its not just hollywood. Not sure how many "old school" wrestling fans there are out there, but look at the difference in that industry. Used to be it was big men, who were physically strong and imposing even though they had a thick solid shape, if flabby or possessing a belly. That was considered a "manly man" by women (and men) far and wide. Yet now most pro wrestlers are either steroid monkeys if big or 150 pounds of little girly man that I dont consider manly at all... had I been a wrestler 20 years ago I would now be considered skinny, as it stands I am too fat and out of shape to be considered manly at all, regardless of my skill...

What happened? And why do us overweight people put up with it? Aside from Jack Black and a few others, ALL the romantic and adventure heros are stick men, all the gorgeous sex symbols are anorexic and even the supporting cast and extras are primarily thin... And even us overweight people still seem to idolize skinny men and women. I know too many "big" people who are single because they refuse to date anyone unless they are "hollywood beautiful". What hypocrites!!!

But why? Doesn't it make us feel bad as the largest purchasing body in north america to be made to feel inferior in every way by the popular media? Dont we get offended when only the super thin are chosen as "America's Next Top Model"? Dont we feel pissed off and genuinely angry that all the coolest clothes are only designed for 30% of the population?

Why havent we just SNAPPED and stopped this crap? We are MUCH bigger people and a MUCH bigger portion of the population, so why do we let those skinny little *%$^$'ers push us around? We are the primary consumers, and we COULD do something about it, verbally, physically and financially....

But still the skinny buggers win... Why? Why? WHY??

Because we let them. We bought into their bull crap. We now think of ourselves as worthless, ugly and inferior. We see on tv, in the stores and in the restaurants that we are the odd one out, therefore we all feel that way. How many times have you said, or heard someone else say "I wish I could just be thin like everyone else?" How freeking wrong is that? The skinny ones are the odd one out these days! We (big ones) ARE like everyone else, but every aspect in our lives tells us WE are the different ones, WE are the inferior ones and We are to blame..... And WE believe it!!

I have always maintained one stance on being fat that helped me through those moments. I may not be "hollywood sexy" like Brad Pitt or George Clooney, but put me in a situation where I have to defend myself from some skinny runt and I will take being a big guy any day of the week. They may get all the chicks, but I wont get my ass kicked in high school as much as they did. They may be "sexy" and have multiple partners and fun free sex anytime they want, but they will die from aids before I ever will.

Now of course, as I stated earlier, there are exceptions to every rule. Not every skinny person is an asshole and not every fat person is miserable and unhappy. But as a society we have made some big mistakes. We made fat ugly and skinny beautiful, and we believed it. I know too many people that would rather be anorexically skinny like paris hilton rather than a heathy normal weight.

Would life have been so much eaiser if healthy and fit had been more popular than sexy? Wouldnt it have been nice if popular media didnt make fat people into lepers and social outcasts and instead gave them hope and an education in how to be healthy?

Wouldn't it have been nice if we had been treated like "normal" people?

sirant
 
Sadly.....

Misty53 said:
Actually Betty Paige was very tiny I think I read somewhere that her measurements were 35-24-35. Jessica Simpson and Beyonce' & Jennifer Lopez.... Hallie Berry.... are curvy. I think these women are just lucky enough to have curves in the right places so they don't appear stick thin. But there is no way you could pinch an inch around their waistline.
I don't think that most men would pick a woman who looks like Nichole Richie over any of the above mentioned ladies.
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Being a man, and having those "guy" talks with my buddies for many years, most of the curvy women you described were considered fat. Nicole Ritchie and that god awful Paris Hilton have always been considered much sexier. Not to me mind you. I think those 2 in particular are sickeningly unhealthy and I wouldnt touch them with a 10 foot pole myself. A ten foot electric cattle prod, maybe....

sirant
 
Hell yeah!!

TomO said:
Personally, I don't care for bone thin, fragile looking women.

The fashion and cosmetics industry has a lot to do with altering our perceptions of beauty, for the worse I believe.

I'll take a strong woman any day of the week.
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I am with you buddy!

My wife is absolutely the smallest woman I ever dated. But she is from a completely different culture than the women I am used to from back home. And thank god for that. Truth be told back home I was always more attracted to bigger built women because I liked curves and all the fun things that came with them ;). I liked soft women who were fun to hang on to, and I generally found bigger women more in touch with their emotions and feelings than the thinner ones. Of course theses are generalizations and dont hold true for the whole populations, but for myself it was mostly true.

And strength is definitely a good thing too. Women with curves were once thought of as far more valuable as a wife because they were stronger and could help more with everyday tasks and duties, not to mention being considered healthier for childbearing and daily work.

In my opinion curves are sexy and fun, though of course heathy is also important. I would prefer a balance of the two any day of the week over paris hilton. Truth be told I would prefer rosie odonell over paris hilton, but I dont think she would prefer me... ;)

sirant
 
TomO said:
Personally, I don't care for bone thin, fragile looking women.

The fashion and cosmetics industry has a lot to do with altering our perceptions of beauty, for the worse I believe.

I'll take a strong woman any day of the week.
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Ditto- im afraid I'd break a thin woman....
I prefer amazon women-full figured, tall and strong...

As for fellow large men who are sex symbols- hmmm, there was Marlon Brando- but i suppose he lost his appeal when he got really big..

There is Meatloaf- whose 'Bat out of Hell' album is a classic. He got well over 300 pounds, but think he really trimmed down..

Jack Black might not have classic good looks- but the man has personality- he is very funny- Ever see 'School Of Rock?

That actually brings to mind somthing- ever notice overweight people are often put in comedic roles? Are we supposed to be laughing at their jokes-or at them?
 
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Hahahahahaha!!!

Titanic Explore said:
Jack Black might not have classic good looks- but the man has personality- he is very funny- Ever see 'School Of Rock?
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Ever seen it??

I LIVE it!! As an English teacher in China I have a secret weapon which will get me a job in kindegartens all over China. I play Ukulele and sing! My first school I taught in ever was in a small town, an experimental program where the kids didnt want to learn English, they were forced to. We were given mexican English books with spanish speaking students in mind, that frankly sucked. So I made the kids a deal. Half the class, shitty books, the other half we rocked! Seriously. We learned Queen, Sex Pistols, The Police, Bad Religion, you name it.

Best moment ever was when I was showing the kids the video of Queen doing "I want to break free". The whole band in drag, cooking cleaning and prancing around the house. The kids LOVED IT!!!! Then the school board trustees, the school management and the parent teacher group walked in to view the class.... I thought I was sooooo fired, or worse. Instead, since the kids were all singing along, in English, they took me aside after class and told me I was the best teacher they had ever seen!

After that I have been doing a perpetual school of rock and have really seriously considered making a career of it, but from a musical standpoint instead of just english.

As for the men you mentioned, true, some might consider them sexy, but really they are/were more Charismatic than sexy. I am sure if you took a poll of women on the street, as much as they might like his comedy and movies, very few women would consider Jack Black sexy. And if they were not familiar with his movies I am sure you would not find one woman who would lick her lips and say "yummy".

And meatloaf??? Sure he got laid, but even skinny that boy werent pretty.... Famous? Charisma? Ok.... Sexy?? Hmmmm thats pushing it..

Sorry Jack, no offense, you are my hero after all, but you just aint hollywood sexy.....

sirant
 
RJAZ520 said:
I like em thick... i dont know why... but i do... always have.
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same here...The women i have dated in the past have all been been big and very voluptuous..Im just drawn to that body type, but compatible personalities of course is what makes or breaks the relationship....
 
Oh Hell No!!!

mindovermatter said:
Sirant there are over over 1.31 billion people in China. I have to believe that you are the 1 in 1.31 billion that would prefer Rosie.
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This is a country of primarily "skinny" people. At least in the past, that is of course changing now as the country westernizes. But I know many men here who would much rather have a rosie than a paris, simply because it is different. Bigger women tend to have, um, larger and rounder "bits" than skinny women, so its something different that many men here find fascinating. I cant believe how many men and women here now tell me I am crazy to want to lose weight because I am so damn good looking already! Here big is different and exciting, so they like it. Rosie of course wouldnt be my first pick for a "hot mama" but I would take her in a heartbeat over paris. Hell, I would take Jack Black over paris, but thats just me. That woman disturbs me to the core of my being.

sirant
 
sirant said:
Ever seen it??

I LIVE it!! As an English teacher in China I have a secret weapon which will get me a job in kindegartens all over China. I play Ukulele and sing! My first school I taught in ever was in a small town, an experimental program where the kids didnt want to learn English, they were forced to. We were given mexican English books with spanish speaking students in mind, that frankly sucked. So I made the kids a deal. Half the class, shitty books, the other half we rocked! Seriously. We learned Queen, Sex Pistols, The Police, Bad Religion, you name it.

Best moment ever was when I was showing the kids the video of Queen doing "I want to break free". The whole band in drag, cooking cleaning and prancing around the house. The kids LOVED IT!!!! Then the school board trustees, the school management and the parent teacher group walked in to view the class.... I thought I was sooooo fired, or worse. Instead, since the kids were all singing along, in English, they took me aside after class and told me I was the best teacher they had ever seen!

After that I have been doing a perpetual school of rock and have really seriously considered making a career of it, but from a musical standpoint instead of just english.

As for the men you mentioned, true, some might consider them sexy, but really they are/were more Charismatic than sexy. I am sure if you took a poll of women on the street, as much as they might like his comedy and movies, very few women would consider Jack Black sexy. And if they were not familiar with his movies I am sure you would not find one woman who would lick her lips and say "yummy".

And meatloaf??? Sure he got laid, but even skinny that boy werent pretty.... Famous? Charisma? Ok.... Sexy?? Hmmmm thats pushing it..

Sorry Jack, no offense, you are my hero after all, but you just aint hollywood sexy.....

sirant
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Sirant, I just aquired my TEFL certification and studying for a Masters in ESL- I do hope to teach english in Japan- and one reason i need to loose weight is because I was concerned I might not be marketable if i am a true 'fat American'.

Man, if I could be half a good a teacher as Jack Black's character in 'School of Rock' I'd count myself as lucky....

Too many teachers fall into the trap thinking that teaching shouldn't be fun...
 
Absolutely right!

Titanic Explore said:
Sirant, I just aquired my TEFL certification and studying for a Masters in ESL- I do hope to teach english in Japan- and one reason i need to loose weight is because I was concerned I might not be marketable if i am a true 'fat American'.

Man, if I could be half a good a teacher as Jack Black's character in 'School of Rock' I'd count myself as lucky....

Too many teachers fall into the trap thinking that teaching shouldn't be fun...
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A fun teacher makes a better teacher.... bar none! And they do recognize that here!

Don't worry too much about thinning down first. As a foreigner people will be much less critical of you than they would be of themselves. They know all about where you are coming from. And from talking to my friends who have taught in Japan, it is the same as here, even a Big Man will get hit on all the time because it is so different from the norm. I had 5 gorgeous women literally fighting over who got to take me out for dinner every night of the week when I first got here. Now, after finding that beautiful girlfriend, now wife, I got the additional inspiration to make my weight loss happen. Not to be sexy, but to be healthy.

You may also find, like I did, that the asian culture is geared more towards healthier eating and much more active lifestyles than we are used to back home. This also could be why it took 30 years and 10,000km to get myself on the right track.

Go to Japan! Find some sexy new girlfriend and watch how motivated you become. And you will find the people are more than willing to accept you as you are and also help you become the man you want to be.

sirant
 
sirant said:
A fun teacher makes a better teacher.... bar none! And they do recognize that here!

Don't worry too much about thinning down first. As a foreigner people will be much less critical of you than they would be of themselves. They know all about where you are coming from. And from talking to my friends who have taught in Japan, it is the same as here, even a Big Man will get hit on all the time because it is so different from the norm. I had 5 gorgeous women literally fighting over who got to take me out for dinner every night of the week when I first got here. Now, after finding that beautiful girlfriend, now wife, I got the additional inspiration to make my weight loss happen. Not to be sexy, but to be healthy.

You may also find, like I did, that the asian culture is geared more towards healthier eating and much more active lifestyles than we are used to back home. This also could be why it took 30 years and 10,000km to get myself on the right track.

Go to Japan! Find some sexy new girlfriend and watch how motivated you become. And you will find the people are more than willing to accept you as you are and also help you become the man you want to be.

sirant
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I love your confidence Sirant! You are a very inspirational person, and I suspect a superb teacher. Are you staying in China for good?

And from what I have seen, TEFL classes are the most effective and enjoyable when the element of **FUN** is added....

'School Of rock' shoud be required viewing for all prospective teachers...

All of asia fascinates me- But japan is intriging, as its a blending of western influences with an asiatic culture...
 
Hmmmm.....

Titanic Explore said:
I love your confidence Sirant! You are a very inspirational person, and I suspect a superb teacher. Are you staying in China for good?

And from what I have seen, TEFL classes are the most effective and enjoyable when the element of **FUN** is added....

'School Of rock' shoud be required viewing for all prospective teachers...

All of asia fascinates me- But japan is intriging, as its a blending of western influences with an asiatic culture...
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I wouldnt mind staying in China for good at all. The life over here is good and I am very settled wife a Chinese wife and daughter. We are in process of preparing to buy a house too. But I do have family in Canada who someday may require me to come back to help out. But I would prefer to do that closer to retirement. There are boundless opportunities in China and I plan on taking full advantage. Now that I can speak Chinese I feel very comfortable and happy here.

Japan is a neat place too. I almost wish I had gone there just so I could have continued pro wrestling (yet another thing in common with a jack black movie) One thing though is the cost of living is very high and simple things we take for granted, like fresh fruits and veggies come with a very high price tag. One lady I knew teaching there was paying $10US for a 1/2 head of lettuce. Also another somewhat negative aspect was the insane competitivelness of the Japanese people. She had a student in her class one day who dissapeared, only to find out later this 9 year old was murdered by another students parents out of jealousy because her kid was not #1 in the class. This of course is an extreme case, but all too sadly not that uncommon there. Competition is fierce and the children are a different breed than most we are used to. Here in China I get ot have fun 24/7, and thats right up my alley. Another thing that worries me about Japan is all the damn earthquakes lately. Not sure if you have been paying attention to it, but they have had 6+ in as many weeks.... Makes me a bit nervous.

Don't let me turn you off Japan however, since it does have so many good things to offer too and is one of the safer places for new teachers to get their feet wet, as it were. Plus being in Asia is nice because there are so many countries nearby to visit at a fraction of the time and cost of doing so from home. I can go to Thailand, for example, stay in a 5 star hotel for 5 days and live like a king, for less than it costs me to travel 300km to a nearby city by bus in Canada and stay in an el-cheapo-grande motel. For a week in Phuket with return airfare and hotel I am looking at $300 bucks.... Wonder why I went 2X already this year?

Good luck with it all and I hope you have fun. Model your teaching after jack black and you will be a it. Better yet, learn a little ukulele (super duper easy) and you will be a big time star for the kids and the school.

sirant
 
sirant said:
I wouldnt mind staying in China for good at all. The life over here is good and I am very settled wife a Chinese wife and daughter. We are in process of preparing to buy a house too. But I do have family in Canada who someday may require me to come back to help out. But I would prefer to do that closer to retirement. There are boundless opportunities in China and I plan on taking full advantage. Now that I can speak Chinese I feel very comfortable and happy here.

Japan is a neat place too. I almost wish I had gone there just so I could have continued pro wrestling (yet another thing in common with a jack black movie) One thing though is the cost of living is very high and simple things we take for granted, like fresh fruits and veggies come with a very high price tag. One lady I knew teaching there was paying $10US for a 1/2 head of lettuce. Also another somewhat negative aspect was the insane competitivelness of the Japanese people. She had a student in her class one day who dissapeared, only to find out later this 9 year old was murdered by another students parents out of jealousy because her kid was not #1 in the class. This of course is an extreme case, but all too sadly not that uncommon there. Competition is fierce and the children are a different breed than most we are used to. Here in China I get ot have fun 24/7, and thats right up my alley. Another thing that worries me about Japan is all the damn earthquakes lately. Not sure if you have been paying attention to it, but they have had 6+ in as many weeks.... Makes me a bit nervous.

Don't let me turn you off Japan however, since it does have so many good things to offer too and is one of the safer places for new teachers to get their feet wet, as it were. Plus being in Asia is nice because there are so many countries nearby to visit at a fraction of the time and cost of doing so from home. I can go to Thailand, for example, stay in a 5 star hotel for 5 days and live like a king, for less than it costs me to travel 300km to a nearby city by bus in Canada and stay in an el-cheapo-grande motel. For a week in Phuket with return airfare and hotel I am looking at $300 bucks.... Wonder why I went 2X already this year?

Good luck with it all and I hope you have fun. Model your teaching after jack black and you will be a it. Better yet, learn a little ukulele (super duper easy) and you will be a big time star for the kids and the school.

sirant
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Sirant, what part of Canada are you from? Im American, from Boston, but lived up in Toronto for 6 months- Great town! Canada is a great place- I particularly liked my grandmother's home town, Nova scotia...
My one concern about teaching abroud is that the current American president and his disasterous foreign policy has been devistating for America's image abroad- i hope those who don't agree with Bush take it out on teachers who happen to be American....I guess i'll eventually find out...
 
I am overweight, but even when I'm thin, I don't have a stick thin body. I study fashion though and there are certain models whom I really love. The fascination with thin people is annoying and it does a lot of harm, but there are tons of really thin people that simply have long bodies, great metabolisms, and there are even the "skinny/fat" people. I have layouts of editorials of super thin women that I think are stunning and sure, it's an aesthetic value and artistic vision that I am admiring, but it's an entirely different aspect of creativity that I enjoy exploring. As for thin celebrities...who cares? I don't buy into a film because the actress is thin. The content is important (or most of the time not) and skinny or fat doesn't play into it, I don't allow it to do so. As for the people that do, I wouldn't waste my time on them. You can't help it if you're naturally thin, and you also can't change your natural predisposition or body shape. I don't care that there aren't more pear-shaped women representing on screen. How often does someone say, "oh I totally find small boobs and massive hips really hot"? or more apple-shaped women, with a big tummy and thin legs. The majority just isn't going to be represented truthfully.
 
my sister lived in japan for a good few years, met and married a japanese guy. they had one child. eventually they separated and came home. she said the schools in japan push the students very hard and there were case/s of students committing suicide, whether due to pressure or feeling a failure i dont know. saying that she enjoyed her time over there and made many friends.she also travelled a lot to places like hong kong, guam and the other marianas islands and the philipines. she had 3 jobs at one point dancing, tutoring and working in a bar.it is very expensive as sirant has already said. i only wish i had taken her up on offers to visit at the time.
talking about making school fun. my son has a young male teacher and since my son has been taught by him has come on leaps and bounds and looks forward to going each morning.he really does seem to make learning fun.for example he has been known to play his guitar in class and to really get the feel for history has been known to dress up as henry v111 in full costume and got the kids to spend a day as tudors, down to the food and the stocks etc slim
 
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