What muscle group? -pull-ups

M

McGyver

0
I'm a new member and I need some help regarding pull-ups.
Currently, I can barely do 1 but I would like to be able to do atleast 10 in 6 months or so.

Since comming up with that goal, I've pretty much been scouring the 'net trying to find as much info and tips as I can find, and I've found that (surprisingly) most website tells me that the major muscle group utilized is located in your back, with additional support from your upper+forearms, shoulders, and etc.

However, when I actually do them (or attempt them -currently only doing negatives and assisted) my arms get the biggest "burn". I literally do not feel anything in my back, but my arms feel completely drained afterwards.
My question is, what is more important: biceps or the muscle groups located in the back?
I thought biceps would be the primary muscle group utilized (especially from a dead hang), but after visiting those websites, I am not so certain.

In anycase, I started adding curls to my workout routine.


Also, is my goal even remotely realistic? 10 pull-ups in 6 months, starting from 0? I read articles on how it took some people a couple of months just to get 1 done.
I'm 6'1 @ 150lbs (apparently I'm normal :)) and just started working out. I have no previous athletic experience; no sports, no training, nothing besides lifting a backpack.
I understand I won't get an exact answer as every body is different, as is the intensity of ones workout routine.
But, how long did it take you to get 1 done from 0?


Thanks
 
10 on 6 months = Easy.

The muscles you want to develop are your lats mainly. The reason your arms are probably so burnt is because your biceps are much less effecient than your lats. Also another reason your arms will be burnt is because you probably wont have great grip pressure.
 
Is this the correct form (from wikipedia) that would utilize that lats?

His grip is pretty wide compared to mine, my grip is slightly wider than my shoulders.
 
That guy locks out his elbows - which is wrong. You want to keep the tension throughout the whole exercise. Its a bit hard to tell but from the looks of it there's little to no eccentric phase, he just kind of "drops". Otherwise OK
 
Karky said:
you dont have to go as wide as that, it will still hit the lats.
Click to expand...

Not as much though...

Thats probably why your biceps are activated more on your exercise because your arms arnt far apart enough. The lats, stretch from your lower back to your humerous and are mainly used during adduction of the arm.

When raising instead of focusing on using your biceps focus on using the area around the armpit, and bring your elbows out to the side.
 
McGyver said:
Is this the correct form (from wikipedia) that would utilize that lats?


His grip is pretty wide compared to mine, my grip is slightly wider than my shoulders.
Click to expand...

Now, in my view, most people in a gym shouldn't even try to do any sort of unassisted " vertical pull " unless they can do a machine ( lat ) " pull-down " using the equivalent of just over their own body weight IMO. But, thats just me. :)

Good ' pull up ' form depends on the grip to some extent. For a standard underhand grip pull, postion your hands at shoulder width or a bit inside - for an overhand grip ( as you see in your video clip ) it's just outside shoulder width. Perhaps more in the manner in which you are doing it than the extent shown in the clip. On the way up, you want to inhale and extend your chest out a bit. When you pull up close to the bar, go so far until you touch your collar bone to the bar or the bar touches lower down a bit on your chest. Your back should be slightly arched at the top of the pull. Exhale at the bottom of your rep.

The key thing to remember is to start with your shoulders in the pull - not your arms. The first thing you want to do is to move your shoulders down and back. In other words, you want your shoulder blades to move toward one another before you elbows start to bend. So you move your shoulder blades first, your lats and delts next and your biceps and forearms last.

As with any exercise, you'd ' eventually ' want to do 3 sets of about 6-8 " pulls " in perfect form.
 
matt182 said:
Not as much though...

Thats probably why your biceps are activated more on your exercise because your arms arnt far apart enough. The lats, stretch from your lower back to your humerous and are mainly used during adduction of the arm.

When raising instead of focusing on using your biceps focus on using the area around the armpit, and bring your elbows out to the side.
Click to expand...

actually a closer grip will hit them more
I've been in a long and involved thread on grip width for pulldowns, chins and variants. The conclusions reached were basically explained by noting the position of the humerus bone in relation to the different grips. With the mythical wide grip (the one most people hear is for 'width') leaves the humerus straight out to the sides. To do a narrow grip, you have to extend the humerus upward , pulling the lats up into a longer ROM, and a different angle of attack in the beginning of the movement.
As you do your pull, the humerus moves through the extra plus the prior ROM, accomplishing almost the same thing, but more.
I say 'almost' because there is a slight difference in the position of the elbows, narrow grip requiring them to be slightly more forward. But that is a good thing for involving the upper lat.

also try holding your hands above your head shoulder width apart, you wont feel a pull on your lats, now try touching your hands you will feel the pull,so IMO close grip is better for stretch and it allows you to use more weight and there is less chance of injury to shoulders and bis.
 
One thing I have observed is that unless you actively engage your back muscles, people often "feel it" in their arms, regardless of form. Part of the reason it is called "training" is that you are training yourself to contract and use the proper muscles for each exercise.

Correct form is one part, learning to contract and control the muscles is another part. As said by a pp, get your shoulders into correct position (down and back), then contract your lat muscles (side of back) as you pull up.
 
Wrangell said:
Now, in my view, most people in a gym shouldn't even try to do any sort of unassisted " vertical pull " unless they can do a machine ( lat ) " pull-down " using the equivalent of just over their own body weight IMO. But, thats just me. :)
Click to expand...

I don't believe pulldown strength correlates very well with pull-up ability. The pull-up is a closed chained exercise and will have a different muscle recruitment pattern than that of the opened chained pulldown. The movements look similar, but vary greatly.

To me, the best way to improve your ability to do pull-ups is by being on the bar. I've taken clients from zero to eight pull-ups within a month (not great, but appreciable considering this was not our main focus) by concentrating on eccentric pull-ups with no lat pulldowns at all. I also don't highly recommend the assisted pull-up machines because they tend to take away the body stabilization that takes place during a normal unassisted pull-up. That being said, different methods have their place in different situations, but if at all possible I would avoid, or at least not rely heavily on, pulldowns/machine assisted pull-ups if you're trying to improve your pull-up ability.

Also, with regards to clients feeling it in their arms more than their backs...I find it helpful to remove them from the machine/bar altogether and do a little drill with them. I'll have them raise their arms overhead as if getting ready to perform a pull-up/pulldown. I'll place my hands underneath their elbows and have them push their elbows down into my hands while I resist. This helps remove the arms from the movement so they can get an idea for what it feels like to contract the lats. Usually on the next set their facial expression changes as they seem to "get it." I use this for rowing exercises as well.
 
CAndersonCSCS said:
I don't believe pulldown strength correlates very well with pull-up ability. The pull-up is a closed chained exercise and will have a different muscle recruitment pattern than that of the opened chained pulldown. The movements look similar, but vary greatly
Click to expand...

Agreed. Given the lat pulldown pulls the weight toward your body instead of your body being pulled upward ( as in the pull-up ) it constitutes an open chain exercise.

Obviously, the similarities are simply that they are both compound pulls that have the lats as primary movers...and, that they share many of the same 7 or 8 primary synergists involved in both pull mechanics as well.

However, that being said, as far as muscle recruitment goes, notwithstanding the seeming similarities, a front pulldown can recruit more fibers from the upper and middle part of the lats whereas the back pulldown can recruit more from the lower and lateral fibers of the lats.

Given the OP is at zero pull-ups now, being able to do 3/4 sets of lat pulldowns ( mixing back and front ) of progressvie overloads over a number of weeks will strengthen the muscles that are the primary movers ( as well as others like the traps, rhomboids, biceps, etc. ) needed to do multiple pull ups in good form.

Again , my experience has been that some sustained lat pull down training will benefit pull ups significantly...but that's just me.:)
 
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