what is muscle failure?
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Muscle failure is only one method to increase hypertrophy but its far from the only one. Personally i think it should be keep to a minimum but you can try it and see how it goes.
Concentric Failure is the lifting portion of the movement.
eg. During a bench press you can't pushup the 6th rep and need someone to take it for you, failure.
Concentric Failure is the lifting portion of the movement.
eg. During a bench press you can't pushup the 6th rep and need someone to take it for you, failure.
training to failure means that you shouldn't be able to complete the final reps in the last set or two. You go to push the bar off your chest, and can't.
So with this training type (which I agree shouldn't be done every day, not even every week) you have to either have a spotter, or have exercises that'll allow you to ditch the weight safely (i.e. dumbells instead of barbell for bench press).
The idea is you push the muscle to failure, so the body then re-builds it to exceed that failure point. HOwever its wicked hard on your CNS and joints...its best uses occasionally, say, every couple weeks, per body part. So maybe once a month you'd take benchpress to failure during a workout.
Assuming you understand that 'failure' means failure to complete that 'current' set, you should have no problem determing the poundage needed to hit failure. If you think you can't hit it in 3-4 sets, you need to up your poundage.
So with this training type (which I agree shouldn't be done every day, not even every week) you have to either have a spotter, or have exercises that'll allow you to ditch the weight safely (i.e. dumbells instead of barbell for bench press).
The idea is you push the muscle to failure, so the body then re-builds it to exceed that failure point. HOwever its wicked hard on your CNS and joints...its best uses occasionally, say, every couple weeks, per body part. So maybe once a month you'd take benchpress to failure during a workout.
Assuming you understand that 'failure' means failure to complete that 'current' set, you should have no problem determing the poundage needed to hit failure. If you think you can't hit it in 3-4 sets, you need to up your poundage.
What's your CNS? And also, is it okay to work until failure if you're doing bodyweight exercise, or does that apply across the board?
failure of the set (or sets, like the last two sets you fail to complete all reps)
trainign to complete failure would do more damage than good to the muscle tissue, slowing recovery.
That's why training to 'set failure' should only be done occasionally. If you're training properly the rest of the time, you shouldn't need many failure sets to push thru plateus.
trainign to complete failure would do more damage than good to the muscle tissue, slowing recovery.
That's why training to 'set failure' should only be done occasionally. If you're training properly the rest of the time, you shouldn't need many failure sets to push thru plateus.
Ok... just making sure.. because I see guys start at their 1 RM's, and see how many reps they can do, then drop the weight 5 pounds, see how many they can do, etc... and they'll do that every week 
Went back in my notes and found an interesting article...
"Another myth propagated by the bodybuilding world, which also began in the early 80's, is the idea that one must train to failure. Nothing could be further from the truth. This notion came about when High Intensity Training (HIT) was being espoused as gospel. Mike Mentzer was the leader of this movement, however was also insane. In his 1925 classic “Secrets of Strength”, Earle Liederman wrote that, “a strong man never overextends himself in training." Olympic lifters and powerlifters have never trained to failure, yet always make significant progress. Dr. Terry Todd, a world powerlifting champion often says if you are training to failure you are training to fail. Training to failure does nothing more than over stress the central nervous system and increase the time it takes to recover from training. Although it seems hardcore and intense it is generally not a good idea. In fact, well respected strength coach Chad Waterbury has stated that taking as little as one set to failure in a particular workout can extend the recovery process by up to 48 hours. Always end sets with at least one rep left in the tank"
Went back in my notes and found an interesting article...
"Another myth propagated by the bodybuilding world, which also began in the early 80's, is the idea that one must train to failure. Nothing could be further from the truth. This notion came about when High Intensity Training (HIT) was being espoused as gospel. Mike Mentzer was the leader of this movement, however was also insane. In his 1925 classic “Secrets of Strength”, Earle Liederman wrote that, “a strong man never overextends himself in training." Olympic lifters and powerlifters have never trained to failure, yet always make significant progress. Dr. Terry Todd, a world powerlifting champion often says if you are training to failure you are training to fail. Training to failure does nothing more than over stress the central nervous system and increase the time it takes to recover from training. Although it seems hardcore and intense it is generally not a good idea. In fact, well respected strength coach Chad Waterbury has stated that taking as little as one set to failure in a particular workout can extend the recovery process by up to 48 hours. Always end sets with at least one rep left in the tank"
DeX said:Ok... just making sure.. because I see guys start at their 1 RM's, and see how many reps they can do, then drop the weight 5 pounds, see how many they can do, etc... and they'll do that every week
Went back in my notes and found an interesting article...
"Another myth propagated by the bodybuilding world, which also began in the early 80's, is the idea that one must train to failure. Nothing could be further from the truth. This notion came about when High Intensity Training (HIT) was being espoused as gospel. Mike Mentzer was the leader of this movement, however was also insane. In his 1925 classic “Secrets of Strength”, Earle Liederman wrote that, “a strong man never overextends himself in training." Olympic lifters and powerlifters have never trained to failure, yet always make significant progress. Dr. Terry Todd, a world powerlifting champion often says if you are training to failure you are training to fail. Training to failure does nothing more than over stress the central nervous system and increase the time it takes to recover from training. Although it seems hardcore and intense it is generally not a good idea. In fact, well respected strength coach Chad Waterbury has stated that taking as little as one set to failure in a particular workout can extend the recovery process by up to 48 hours. Always end sets with at least one rep left in the tank"
oh no... better clear out, trouble's brewin'
Thats good, you have your weight set up right if you can't finish your last set.
try removing a few lbs from your first set, and adding them to your 3rd set, so you are lifting more every time.
Its normal to be able to do more on some days and less on others, just due to the time of day, what youv'e eaten (energy), amount of sleep you had, what you done that day or day before.
try removing a few lbs from your first set, and adding them to your 3rd set, so you are lifting more every time.
Its normal to be able to do more on some days and less on others, just due to the time of day, what youv'e eaten (energy), amount of sleep you had, what you done that day or day before.
about muscle failure...
so you guys are saying its bad to do a set scheme where towards the end, the very last rep needs help. are you guys stating that all sets, except possibly one, should have all perfect reps? no help at the end?
i really like having help at the end of every rep. makes it more interesting, and I feel as if I get a lot stronger doing that. Lemme know what you pumpers think.
so you guys are saying its bad to do a set scheme where towards the end, the very last rep needs help. are you guys stating that all sets, except possibly one, should have all perfect reps? no help at the end?
i really like having help at the end of every rep. makes it more interesting, and I feel as if I get a lot stronger doing that. Lemme know what you pumpers think.
When your bar speed changes due to a drop off in form, the set [should be] over. Once your primary movers have had enough, what do you think is doing the lift? Your supporting muscles aren't designed to lift heavy weight... Only role is to support primary movers. Go beyond failure often and you will join me in the multiple shoulder surgery club!WOLVERINE said:
what do you recommend then? just do 5 sets of 5 reps that you know you can do perfectly? how do you get stronger then?
If you test yourself regularly, you base your workloads on a percentage of your maxes in various rep ranges. Those numbers should change. Blowing yourself out till there's nothing left every time you train does not mean that you're making progress. In fact, it's just training blindly with no purpose, like a boat without a rudder.
For example, if I want my CNS to be in supercompensation in 2 days so that I can work a particular muscle again, the I would train at about a 5-6% fatigue rate. Your rep range depends on your goals, but those percentages stay the same. You may do in one workout the same number of reps I do for an entire week, but I will have worked at a much higher recruitment threshold by spreading out my volume, and working much higher loads relative to my maxes (since I woudln't be spending the last two thirds of my workout pre-exhausted).
For example, if I want my CNS to be in supercompensation in 2 days so that I can work a particular muscle again, the I would train at about a 5-6% fatigue rate. Your rep range depends on your goals, but those percentages stay the same. You may do in one workout the same number of reps I do for an entire week, but I will have worked at a much higher recruitment threshold by spreading out my volume, and working much higher loads relative to my maxes (since I woudln't be spending the last two thirds of my workout pre-exhausted).
I support WOLVERINE's idea that we are getting stronger when we go beyond the normal limit. At first when anybody starts lifting weight, that failure (muscles) felt immediately and you will be able to cover up few sets. but as days pass by with that routine you find ya self getting stronger through working over ya normal routine [muscle failure]. I think is a nice thing to work out at that point when you are full exhausted and you need help somebody to push the bell a bit for you.
God muscle failure blows :S
I'm changing my routine. I have not slept well in the past few days. and I am seriously wondering if my "training to failure" has caused this. I couldnt sleep at all last night. I might be overshocking my system. No more training to failure.
Problem is, I cant think of a good way to do this, especially with the heavy hitters. Should I just try to calculate what the perfect amount for me to do in 5 sets of 6?
Problem is, I cant think of a good way to do this, especially with the heavy hitters. Should I just try to calculate what the perfect amount for me to do in 5 sets of 6?