What happens if you dont stretch?
- Thread starter Ilso2
- Start date
Okay fellas, we obviously need to have a little chat.
Passive stretching is actually not that great for you. In fact, a new study was just released that showed that it can increase your likelihood of getting an injury.
All stretching does in deform the musle tissue, and increase your tolerance for more stretching (pain). If also reduces force output, which makes it a very bad idea to do it before playing a sport.
Your flexibility training should come in the form of dynamic moves, under a load. One of my personal favorites comes from strength coach Bill Hartman, called "rufus complexes"...
Gotta get back to work... I will continue this later. Discuss amongst yourselves till I get back.
Passive stretching is actually not that great for you. In fact, a new study was just released that showed that it can increase your likelihood of getting an injury.
All stretching does in deform the musle tissue, and increase your tolerance for more stretching (pain). If also reduces force output, which makes it a very bad idea to do it before playing a sport.
Your flexibility training should come in the form of dynamic moves, under a load. One of my personal favorites comes from strength coach Bill Hartman, called "rufus complexes"...
Gotta get back to work... I will continue this later. Discuss amongst yourselves till I get back.
ok, jp i went take a look at this thread
http://forums.jpfitness.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=000222#000032
tell me what i'm doing wrong
wake up 4am, 4:15am get on the bike for 5-10 minutes
i always start with something like squats, deadlifts or presses. do a light set and then do a light stretch of what i'm working. increase the weight a bit and do another fairly light set and then do another stretch. then get to work
i dont know how to properly describe the stretches, its not the kind where when you sit for a long peroid of time and you get up and stretch out long and intense.
then when i finish with the weights, i stretch out everything.
what should i do differently?
http://forums.jpfitness.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=000222#000032
tell me what i'm doing wrong
wake up 4am, 4:15am get on the bike for 5-10 minutes
i always start with something like squats, deadlifts or presses. do a light set and then do a light stretch of what i'm working. increase the weight a bit and do another fairly light set and then do another stretch. then get to work
i dont know how to properly describe the stretches, its not the kind where when you sit for a long peroid of time and you get up and stretch out long and intense.
then when i finish with the weights, i stretch out everything.
what should i do differently?
i would strongly advise dynamic stretches before a workout (as part of a warm up), and static stretches after a workout.
dynamic stretches increase the core body temperature and produce warm sweat, unlike static sretches which would not make an ideal warm up. Also, muscle receptors measure not only the magnitude of the sretch, but its velocity as well, so dynamic stretches prepare the muscle for a dynamic movement. It wouldnt make sense to do static stretches to prepare for a dynamic movement.
static stretches (whether passive, active, or isometric) assist recovery by releasing waste products from muscles, and lengthen the soft tissue promoting suppleness.
dynamic stretches increase the core body temperature and produce warm sweat, unlike static sretches which would not make an ideal warm up. Also, muscle receptors measure not only the magnitude of the sretch, but its velocity as well, so dynamic stretches prepare the muscle for a dynamic movement. It wouldnt make sense to do static stretches to prepare for a dynamic movement.
static stretches (whether passive, active, or isometric) assist recovery by releasing waste products from muscles, and lengthen the soft tissue promoting suppleness.
But studies have been released stating that stretching prevents injury. Studies have also been done showing no conclusive evidence either way. I know you said you're busy at work so I'm not attacking you, but please post this new study reference. And given a day or two, I'll look up the references I have on reviews of stretching intervention studies on injury rates.
I agree with your last sentence in the sense that stretching may reduce force output but not necessarilly before a sport. If you perform static stretching, 60 sec holds on the chest/shoulders/triceps, then attempt a PR on the bench press, you'll probably have some difficulty. Do you think that stretching before sports such as soccer or basketball increases the likelihood of injury? I recently examined a study looking at plantar flexor strength (gastroc/soleus) and force output after prolonged static stretching (locking the ankle in a dorsiflexed position) and obviously over longer stretch times, force output decreased. I do not believe that a few 30-60 second stretches are going to limit force output to such a degree that performance will be hindered in a sport such as soccer, basketball, or football. Prolonged stretching before a power lifting or olympic lift competition may be a whole different ballgame.
Does stretching not increase the range of motion of a joint? In terms of weight training, I have a client who cannot perform a shoulder press in a full range of motion. He simply cannot complete press the weight overhead and fully extend his elbows. I know that his strength in this lift will be limited until he can successfully complete a full range of motion. Also, should there be such pain during a stretch? Is it possible that this pain could sometimes be stretching of the ligaments as opposed to the muscle tissue? Take the seated hamstring stretch, one leg tucked in while the other leg is extended in front of the body. If you reach for your toes with an extended knee, you'll most likely feel pain in the knee joint (ligaments stretching), simply bend the knee slightly and feel the stretch take hold on the hamstring muscle itself.
Regards
This is the report I was talking about:
---------------------------------------------------
WASHINGTON (AP) -- Stretching does not live up to its reputation as an injury preventer, a survey has found.
"We could not find a benefit," said Stephen B. Thacker, director of the epidemiology program office at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Athletes who stretch might feel more limber, but they shouldn't count on stretching to keep them healthy, he said.
Thacker and four CDC colleagues combed research databases for studies that had compared stretching with other ways to prevent training injuries. They combined data from five studies so they could look more closely for any benefits that might emerge as a pattern. Their report is in the March issue of the American College of Sports Medicine journal, Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise.
People who stretched were no more or less likely to suffer injuries such as pulled muscles, which the increased flexibility that results from stretching is supposed to prevent, researchers found. And the injuries found in the study typically happened within the muscle's normal range of motion, so stretching them would not have made a difference, Thacker said.
Other research has found that warmups, which increase blood flow through the muscle and make it more ready to respond to exercise, can reduce the risk of injury, Thacker said. Being in good shape also helps. Strength and balance training reduced injuries as well, he said.
The idea behind having good flexibility is that, during sports, your muscles will be put under tension in many different positions, including lengthened positions (that is, beyond the normal resting length or middle range). Dynamic stretches are more functional as they specifically train your muscles to exert tension from these lengthened positions, whereas static stretching would serve only to increase extensibility of the muscle.
I do advocate static stretches for the light to moderately active individuals who engage in recreational physical activity. This type of stretching will allow them to maintain appropriate flexibility. Dynamic stretching is rarely appropriate for this type of population, at least until they have developped a little more body awareness and motor control.
I do advocate static stretches for the light to moderately active individuals who engage in recreational physical activity. This type of stretching will allow them to maintain appropriate flexibility. Dynamic stretching is rarely appropriate for this type of population, at least until they have developped a little more body awareness and motor control.
What is the most stretched muscle on a track athlete or football player? The hamstrings. What is the most commonly injured or pulled muscle on a track athlete? The hamstrings. I think it was Einstein who the definition of insanity is the act of doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. Somehow stretching became the accepted paradigm for "injury prevention," but that doesn't make it right.
The term injury prevention is a bit of a misnomer anyway. You can't really "prevent" an injury. A better term is "injury minimization." You can reduce the chances of getting injured, but even the best trained athletes in the world in an ideal situation will have something go wrong some day.
Keep in mind that when I talk about ROM I am referring to the muscle, not the joint. YOu want the joint tissue to be nice and strong because that is what holds your bones together. The spindle fibers in the muscles dictate how far that muscle can move. To increase your ROM you have to retrain those... teach them a new range of set points in a motion. This has to be done with movement and under a load.
The idea of warming up is to prepare the nervous system for activity... stretching activities do not do that... They simply increase the stretch tolerance. Let me lay it out a different way. The ROM you can be passively stretched is probably greater the the ROM you can dynamically stretch. That extra distance you can be stretched is called the "flexibility deficit". The greater the deficit, the more likely you are to injure yourself.
The best way to warm up the muscle and alert the nervous system that you are about to work out is a complex showed to me by strength coach, Bill Hartman. They are called "Rufus Complexes." This is far better than spending the typical 5 minutes on a treadmill followed by 10 minutes of passive stretches. Start with a 45 pound bar and do a series of exercises back to back, only doing 5 reps of each exercise. Start with hang cleans (to the quad), hang cleans (to the knee), hang cleans (below the knee), hang power snatches, bent over rows, RDL's, front squat, shoulder press, front squat/push-press complex, rear squat, squat/push-press complex, good mornings, front lunge, reverse lunge, crossover lunges. I know I am leaving something out, but you get the idea. Of course, always do a warm-up set of the specific exercises you are doing in your workout, but your body will be totally prepared for what you are about to do, and trust me, you will get your HR up a bit too. Try it a few times and see what you think.
The term injury prevention is a bit of a misnomer anyway. You can't really "prevent" an injury. A better term is "injury minimization." You can reduce the chances of getting injured, but even the best trained athletes in the world in an ideal situation will have something go wrong some day.
Keep in mind that when I talk about ROM I am referring to the muscle, not the joint. YOu want the joint tissue to be nice and strong because that is what holds your bones together. The spindle fibers in the muscles dictate how far that muscle can move. To increase your ROM you have to retrain those... teach them a new range of set points in a motion. This has to be done with movement and under a load.
The idea of warming up is to prepare the nervous system for activity... stretching activities do not do that... They simply increase the stretch tolerance. Let me lay it out a different way. The ROM you can be passively stretched is probably greater the the ROM you can dynamically stretch. That extra distance you can be stretched is called the "flexibility deficit". The greater the deficit, the more likely you are to injure yourself.
The best way to warm up the muscle and alert the nervous system that you are about to work out is a complex showed to me by strength coach, Bill Hartman. They are called "Rufus Complexes." This is far better than spending the typical 5 minutes on a treadmill followed by 10 minutes of passive stretches. Start with a 45 pound bar and do a series of exercises back to back, only doing 5 reps of each exercise. Start with hang cleans (to the quad), hang cleans (to the knee), hang cleans (below the knee), hang power snatches, bent over rows, RDL's, front squat, shoulder press, front squat/push-press complex, rear squat, squat/push-press complex, good mornings, front lunge, reverse lunge, crossover lunges. I know I am leaving something out, but you get the idea. Of course, always do a warm-up set of the specific exercises you are doing in your workout, but your body will be totally prepared for what you are about to do, and trust me, you will get your HR up a bit too. Try it a few times and see what you think.
This study is quite current. It compares dynamic activity to stretching and isolated strenthening. Dynamic wins by a longshot.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
J Orthop Sports Phys Ther. 2004 Mar;34(3):116-25. Related Articles, Links
A comparison of 2 rehabilitation programs in the treatment of acute hamstring strains.
Sherry MA, Best TM.
University of Wisconsin Health Sports Medicine Center, Madison, WI, USA. ma.sherry@hosp.wisc.edu
STUDY DESIGN: Prospective randomized comparison of 2 rehabilitation programs. OBJECTIVES: The objectives of this study were to compare the effectiveness of 2 rehabilitation programs for acute hamstring strain by evaluating time needed to return to sports and reinjury rate during the first 2 weeks and the first year after return to sport. A third objective was to investigate the relationship between functional testing performance and time to return to sports and reinjury rates after return to sport. BACKGROUND: Hamstring muscle strains are common in sports and often result in chronic pain, recurrent hamstring strains, and reduced sports performance. Current rehabilitation programs are primarily developed anecdotally and lack support from prospective, randomized research. METHODS AND MEASURES: Twenty-four athletes with an acute hamstring strain were randomly assigned to 1 of 2 rehabilitation groups. Eleven athletes were assigned to a protocol consisting of static stretching, isolated progressive hamstring resistance exercise, and icing (STST group). Thirteen athletes were assigned to a program consisting of progressive agility and trunk stabilization exercises and icing (PATS group). The number of days for full return to sports, injury recurrence within the first 2 weeks, injury recurrence within the first year of returning to sports, and lower-extremity functional evaluations were collected for all subjects and compared between groups. RESULTS: The average (+/- SD) time required to return to sports for athletes in the STST group was 37.4 +/- 27.6 days, while the average time for athletes in the PATS group was 22.2 +/- 8.3 days. This difference was not statistically significant (P = .2455). In the first 2 weeks after return to sports, reinjury rate was significantly greater (P = .00343, Fisher's exact test) in the STST group, where 6 of 11 athletes (54.5%) suffered a recurrent hamstring strain after completing the stretching and strengthening program, as compared to none of the 13 athletes (0%) in the PATS group. After 1 year of return to sports, reinjury rate was significantly greater (P = .0059, Fisher's exact test) in the STST group. Seven of 10 athletes (70%) who completed the hamstring stretching and strengthening program, as compared to only 1 of the 13 athletes (7.7%) who completed the progressive agility and trunk stabilization program, suffered a recurrent hamstring strain during that 1-year period. CONCLUSIONS: A rehabilitation program consisting of progressive agility and trunk stabilization exercises is more effective than a program emphasizing isolated hamstring stretching and strengthening in promoting return to sports and preventing injury recurrence in athletes suffering an acute hamstring strain. Future randomized clinical trials should investigate the potential for progressive agility and trunk stabilization programs in the prevention of hamstring strain injury during sports.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
J Orthop Sports Phys Ther. 2004 Mar;34(3):116-25. Related Articles, Links
A comparison of 2 rehabilitation programs in the treatment of acute hamstring strains.
Sherry MA, Best TM.
University of Wisconsin Health Sports Medicine Center, Madison, WI, USA. ma.sherry@hosp.wisc.edu
STUDY DESIGN: Prospective randomized comparison of 2 rehabilitation programs. OBJECTIVES: The objectives of this study were to compare the effectiveness of 2 rehabilitation programs for acute hamstring strain by evaluating time needed to return to sports and reinjury rate during the first 2 weeks and the first year after return to sport. A third objective was to investigate the relationship between functional testing performance and time to return to sports and reinjury rates after return to sport. BACKGROUND: Hamstring muscle strains are common in sports and often result in chronic pain, recurrent hamstring strains, and reduced sports performance. Current rehabilitation programs are primarily developed anecdotally and lack support from prospective, randomized research. METHODS AND MEASURES: Twenty-four athletes with an acute hamstring strain were randomly assigned to 1 of 2 rehabilitation groups. Eleven athletes were assigned to a protocol consisting of static stretching, isolated progressive hamstring resistance exercise, and icing (STST group). Thirteen athletes were assigned to a program consisting of progressive agility and trunk stabilization exercises and icing (PATS group). The number of days for full return to sports, injury recurrence within the first 2 weeks, injury recurrence within the first year of returning to sports, and lower-extremity functional evaluations were collected for all subjects and compared between groups. RESULTS: The average (+/- SD) time required to return to sports for athletes in the STST group was 37.4 +/- 27.6 days, while the average time for athletes in the PATS group was 22.2 +/- 8.3 days. This difference was not statistically significant (P = .2455). In the first 2 weeks after return to sports, reinjury rate was significantly greater (P = .00343, Fisher's exact test) in the STST group, where 6 of 11 athletes (54.5%) suffered a recurrent hamstring strain after completing the stretching and strengthening program, as compared to none of the 13 athletes (0%) in the PATS group. After 1 year of return to sports, reinjury rate was significantly greater (P = .0059, Fisher's exact test) in the STST group. Seven of 10 athletes (70%) who completed the hamstring stretching and strengthening program, as compared to only 1 of the 13 athletes (7.7%) who completed the progressive agility and trunk stabilization program, suffered a recurrent hamstring strain during that 1-year period. CONCLUSIONS: A rehabilitation program consisting of progressive agility and trunk stabilization exercises is more effective than a program emphasizing isolated hamstring stretching and strengthening in promoting return to sports and preventing injury recurrence in athletes suffering an acute hamstring strain. Future randomized clinical trials should investigate the potential for progressive agility and trunk stabilization programs in the prevention of hamstring strain injury during sports.
OK... enough with the entire articles about stretching in the forum..lol.. just post the link...
I've been working in the athletic training atmosphere for 4 years now... and stretching DOES have it's benefits...
NOTHING CAN PREVENT INJURIES!!!! It happens!!! but sometimes you can prevent the severity of the injury... I know athletes that have sprained their ankles even with them wearing an ankle brace or having their ankle taped.. they maybe have gotten a 1st or 2nd degree, but if they weren't wearing it they could have gotten a 2nd or 3rd degree.. YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!
But as far as stretching... Do a dynamic warn up prior to what you are doing... This has shown that you can get the muscles warmed up and stretch to your specfic event that you are doing... Then what ever you are doing, end it with stretching, such as PNF stretching (contract, relax).... Stretching after working out has shown to increase your flexiblity, which will help "prevent injury"...
Plain and simple as that...
DeX
I've been working in the athletic training atmosphere for 4 years now... and stretching DOES have it's benefits...
NOTHING CAN PREVENT INJURIES!!!! It happens!!! but sometimes you can prevent the severity of the injury... I know athletes that have sprained their ankles even with them wearing an ankle brace or having their ankle taped.. they maybe have gotten a 1st or 2nd degree, but if they weren't wearing it they could have gotten a 2nd or 3rd degree.. YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!
But as far as stretching... Do a dynamic warn up prior to what you are doing... This has shown that you can get the muscles warmed up and stretch to your specfic event that you are doing... Then what ever you are doing, end it with stretching, such as PNF stretching (contract, relax).... Stretching after working out has shown to increase your flexiblity, which will help "prevent injury"...
Plain and simple as that...
DeX
You give absolutely no support for why you should stretch, whereas I listed several specific reasons why NOT to. You can significantly increase your flexibility by performing dynamic moves under a load, because you are retraining the muscle new "set points" at both ends of the movement. You are only suggesting a method of increasing passive flexibility. Passsive stretching (starting to sound like a broken record here, you should just go back and read the thread thoroughly) only increases your tolerance to stretch and actually deforms the muscle. It can also increase your flexibility deficit, which means you are MORE susseptible to a sports-related injury.
And - hijacking my own line of discussion - although tape is sometimes necessary (went through hundreds of rolls doing gymnastics many eons ago), another argument for not using would be that if you use a crutch too often, you start to weaken your support tissues. Its like people who use belts and wraps to squat. If you don't become dependent on them in the first place, you probably won't be as likely to injure your back, whereas someone who has used them for years and suddenly don't are at greater risk. Yes, that athlete may have only gotten a 1st degree sprain wearing tape, but he may never have injured at all if he had strengthened his connective tissue properly.
And - hijacking my own line of discussion - although tape is sometimes necessary (went through hundreds of rolls doing gymnastics many eons ago), another argument for not using would be that if you use a crutch too often, you start to weaken your support tissues. Its like people who use belts and wraps to squat. If you don't become dependent on them in the first place, you probably won't be as likely to injure your back, whereas someone who has used them for years and suddenly don't are at greater risk. Yes, that athlete may have only gotten a 1st degree sprain wearing tape, but he may never have injured at all if he had strengthened his connective tissue properly.