?tapping into fat storage?

Hey,
i was wondering beacuse i have heard so many different opinions on this but how long does it take doing constant exercise at 65-75% MHR to tap into your fat storage. Ive heard 12 minutes to 20 minutes to 30 minutes...does anybody actually know how long it really takes?

Thanx ;)
 
as far as I know the theory that you only use your "fat storage" after excercising a set or minimum period of time is out of date, that's not how it works.
 
How you run will stimulate different enzyme systems. The more you run the more your body adapts, and will be different from when a person starts. However, short sprint interval training never gets easier because it always forces the muscle system to its limits. A little detailed for most people, but read the following copy of a post to another subject and see what you think.
______________________________________________________________

Try this routine:

30 Second as hard as you can sprint
4 minutes rest
Repeat minimum of 4 times, more if you can.
(No more thant 3 times per week)

Some explanation is in order:

All energy systems in your muscle, aerobic and anaerobic, produce ATP, the chemical the muscles use for energy. (ATP=Adenosine TRI phosphate).

There is a little ATP hanging out inside your mucle cells. With exercise, it lasts only ~5 seconds (2-10 seconds depending on who you read).

It is converted into ADP (Adenosine DI phosphate)

ADP is then converted to ATP by Creatine Phosphate donating a phosphate. Creatine Phosphate is how your body stores readily available high energy phosphate to generate immediate ATP. It is the next energy system your body uses, and generates energy beyond the 10 seconds, but only for about 30 Seconds to 1 minute.

When you exercise so hard and fast that your muscles need a lot of energy fast, ATP is converted to ADP, and then ADP can also be used for energy, converting it to AMP (Adenosine MONO phosphate).

The harder/faster you exercise, the more AMP is generated. The cool thing about AMP is that AMP is a key. This molecule stimulates a myriad of enzymes to work in your muscles. The more AMP, the faster, stronger the response. In fact it is AMP that stimulates both the aerobic enzymes for glycolysis and the Anaerobic enzymes for the Krebs Cycle to increase activity (which is why the above stated exercise regimin has been shown to increase not only speed, but able to double endurance in just two weeks.)

It takes 4 minutes of rest for your muscle to resynthesize creatine phosphate. As soon as you stop exercising, Creatine begins taking phosphates from ATP, which generates ADP. See what is happening?

By sprinting again after 4 minutes, there is more ADP in the cells, which means when you sprint, you will force even more AMP to be generated, further stimulating the enzyme systems in the cell. Each set of Sprint/Rest further increases AMP levels in the cell.

Why is this important for FAT LOSS?

One of the enzymes stimulated by AMP is called AMP-kinase. Simply put this enzyme has the responsibility of restoring your muscle cells energy storage. Repeated sprints force use of the glycogen in your muscles, and AMP-Kinase tells the cell STOP USING SUGAR FOR ENERGY, I GOT TO USE IT TO FILL THE WAREHOUSE. YOU WILL HAVE TO LIVE ON FAT FOR AWHILE. Causing the cells to increase fatty acid oxidation for energy.

In animals, chemically stimulating AMP-Kinase, causes them to lose weight.
In humans, the higher the AMP levels in the cell, the more active this enzyme gets. During endurance running (jogging) your body becomes more efficient at generating ATP from ADP, and so very little AMP is produced. More endurance training actually decreases the amount of AMP-Kinase activity a person generates during exercise. Which is why people plateau with running. In order to lose weight, they have to run longer to burn more calories.

In the only study yet to evaluate this, two groups exercised for 20 weeks. One group typical aerobic running. The second group, Sprint training. It was calculated that the sprint group burned 1/2 the calories of the endurance group. But at the end of the study, the sprint group has lost 6 times the subcutaneous fat compared to the endurance group.

Without enough studies to answer more questions about this, you could extrapolate some things from the basic science.

One study showed significant increase in AMP-Kinase activity after one episode of sprinting (for a couple of minutes) that lasted about one hour. Hence, if you wanted to maximize the impact of that enzymes activity, you could sprint one or two times, and then continue with an hour jog which should burn more fat calories during that time. Hypothetical, yes, but based on some good science. Just a thought. I hope this helps. Let me know what you think.

Duane
 
OK, interesting and confusing at the same time.

Let me get this, if you sprint hard for 30 seconds and then rest for 4 minutes (btw what type of rest, sitting, walking, light jogging?) the more AMP you create which in turn increases the amout of fat burned?

And going for that HIIT only 3 times a week prob about 8 times is better at fat loss than jogging for 30 minutes everyday?

Lol sorry your response was a little confusing, i think im going to read it some more and c if i can understand it a little better.

But thanx :D
 
Mike74 said:
as far as I know the theory that you only use your "fat storage" after excercising a set or minimum period of time is out of date, that's not how it works.
Thats not true.

Its been proven that after 12 minutes of constant exercise at an aerobic type of pace, the body uses up glycogen stores and starts utilizing other types of calories for energy, any unused food calories first, fat calories later. Thats why people feel like they have more energy after 12 -15 minutes, they get that "second" wind.
 
Interesting, thanx

And your absolutly right, after ive been jogging for 15 minutes i feel as though im alive again :p
 
Actually, research shows that the increase in AMP-Kinase with sprinting causes an increase in fatty acid oxidation within just a few minutes. So it is true. You can google AMP-Kinase and learn more, but you'll need a pretty good background in physiology/biochem to understand it.

Yes, with steady aerobic exercise of 80% VO2 max it takes significant time before fat begins to be burned, but that is because you are not forcing the muscles to produce a lot of AMP-Kinase, and the fat burning enzymes are not stimulated until after the ready supply of glycogen is virtually depleted.

No one would believe that 30 seconds of exercise and 4 minutes of rest would double endurance, cause a 26% increase in glycogen storage in muscles and 38% increase in aerobic enzyme activity, BUT IT DOES. Sprinting increases BOTH anaerobic AND aerobic capacity. Here is the latest study and the abstract.

Burgomaster KA, Hughes SC, Heigenhauser GJ, Bradwell SN, Gibala MJ. Six sessions of sprint interval training increases muscle oxidative potential and cycle endurance capacity in humans.
J Appl Physiol. 2005 Jun;98(6):1985-90. Epub 2005 Feb 10.

Parra et al. (Acta Physiol. Scand 169: 157-165, 2000) showed that 2 wk of daily sprint interval training (SIT) increased citrate synthase (CS) maximal activity but did not change "anaerobic" work capacity, possibly because of chronic fatigue induced by daily training. The effect of fewer SIT sessions on muscle oxidative potential is unknown, and aside from changes in peak oxygen uptake (Vo(2 peak)), no study has examined the effect of SIT on "aerobic" exercise capacity. We tested the hypothesis that six sessions of SIT, performed over 2 wk with 1-2 days rest between sessions to promote recovery, would increase CS maximal activity and endurance capacity during cycling at approximately 80% Vo(2 peak). Eight recreationally active subjects [age = 22 +/- 1 yr; Vo(2 peak) = 45 +/- 3 ml.kg(-1).min(-1) (mean +/- SE)] were studied before and 3 days after SIT. Each training session consisted of four to seven "all-out" 30-s Wingate tests with 4 min of recovery. After SIT, CS maximal activity increased by 38% (5.5 +/- 1.0 vs. 4.0 +/- 0.7 mmol.kg protein(-1).h(-1)) and resting muscle glycogen content increased by 26% (614 +/- 39 vs. 489 +/- 57 mmol/kg dry wt) (both P < 0.05). Most strikingly, cycle endurance capacity increased by 100% after SIT (51 +/- 11 vs. 26 +/- 5 min; P < 0.05), despite no change in Vo(2 peak). The coefficient of variation for the cycle test was 12.0%, and a control group (n = 8) showed no change in performance when tested approximately 2 wk apart without SIT. We conclude that short sprint interval training (approximately 15 min of intense exercise over 2 wk) increased muscle oxidative potential and doubled endurance capacity during intense aerobic cycling in recreationally active individuals.
 
Walking would probably be best because it would keep the lymphatic and venous system flowing, but it wouldn't need to be vigorous. "rest or light pedaling" was used in the study.
 
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