Tai Chi

D

Daniel.Drache

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Hi all, 1st off found the site by Google & been looking around, it's great!

I've been interested in learning Martial Arts for a while, & found out about this one in my area
Seems fairly serious, Is acceptable by the post "Martial arts styles... what's what." which I found very helpful.

I want to try the Tai Chi because the Spirituality side of it, plus the site claims it will help for self defence.


What I'd like is people's opinion's on wether they think this is a quality institute,

Wether or not Tai Chi will help with Self Defence, I'm not expecting to become a great fighter, but able to hold my ground against the everage person.

Thanks
Daniel
 
I'm very limited in Tai chi... so Im not too up on its validity for self defense. For no questions asked self defense, go to the kung fu school. If its true Shaolin kung fu (which it seems as if you did your homework) then its going to be beautiful and deadly at the same time.
 
Thanks for the help. Just what I was looking for a Thumbs about about their training site :)

I haven't been in a fight for alot of years so slef defence isn't to much of a worry but I figure I'll ask them wether Tai Chi will help.

If not I'll start their Karate, as well.
 
Master Lai 2nd Chamber 50th generation, who had studied martial arts since 1959 also studied with Master Leow Cheng Koon from 1974.
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That's funny, seeing as how the Shaolin generation is at about 36.

I don't know much about the Singapore temple, but their "history" and lineage is shaky at best.

In the end, if you're going to do this, just go see if their methods are right for you.

Tai ji I find is good for things like rooting and whatnot, but as for a practical self defense template, it falls flat. The priciples are what you should learn and apply to combat anyway, ie, circular motion, redirection of energy, striking from the dan tien...**** like that.
 
Additionally, the images in your link depict some REALLY ****ty technique. Don't get bought so easily, check it out with your guard up.
 
Like Lei said Tai Chi can be applied to self defence. If your looking for a martial art that has the Tai Chi like style(movements) but with deadly force, I recommend trying Wing Chun.
 
Actaully what I was trying to say was the techniques themselves probably aren't very useful in a real situation, but what you can use in combat are the principles that taiji is based on.
 
LeiYunFat said:
Actaully what I was trying to say was the techniques themselves probably aren't very useful in a real situation, but what you can use in combat are the principles that taiji is based on.
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Actually if Taiji is inneffective, so are all the others that stole from it by using the pressure points in their own styles.

The origin of Taiji is simply a pressurepoint methodology using as little energy as possible. Bottom line: if it isn't practical for self defense, you haven't learned it from the right person.

Erle Montaigue is the only person worth learning from.


****But, you won't do it.

-And here is why:

Modern methodology of weight training causes muscle tension which is counterproductive in Taiji. Taiji requires complete lack of tension to be effective. In effect, any work done which causes muscle tighness is useless. -And the closest you can get to strength training and NOT sabotage Taiji is to do high cardio weight training: In other words, strength training the old fashioned strongman way.

-Which is what I teach.

Taiji and my weight training methodology go hand in hand.

Taiji is one of only 3 internal systems, all other martial arts are external. As such, unless you are weight training the way I teach, you will need to stick to Gungfu or another external system. -Which, in my reccomendation, if you have to do that, Gungfu of some style is the best to work with.
 
Nice product placement, but the matter at hand here is what he's going to learn, which is most likely some bs.

But while we're at it anyway, what's your lineage?
 
LeiYunFat said:
Nice product placement,
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Actually, it is not product placement at all considering I recommended an external system, now is it?

but the matter at hand here is what he's going to learn, which is most likely some bs.
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Agreed. -And I posted that with a name that can be cross referenced to avoid running into that barrier.

But while we're at it anyway, what's your lineage?
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I didn't type up my post to play "mine is bigger than yours", so it is irrelevant.

My point was to introduce facts and data to the discussion for the purpose of bettering the search for Taiji options or external art options. I think I have done that.
 
Who's to say that the original poster is even going to weight train? He could be like the rest of his skinny and sickly classmates and decide to never touch a weight. And is yours the only method of doing so? What makes your method the only right one? If you're suggesting that conventional hypertrophy-inducing weight lifting will make one unable to reap the benefits of any internal martial art, then I'll have to disagree.

Which is where lineage comes into play. You must know, being a teacher of gong fu, that lineage is the most obvious way to trace legitimacy. Being defensive towards stating yours makes me question that.

That, or what certifications do you possess?

Many martial artists never train like strong men, they train primarily type I fibers. Their power comes from control of chi, which you're equating to the effect powerlifting has on the CNS.
 
LeiYunFat said:
Who's to say that the original poster is even going to weight train? He could be like the rest of his skinny and sickly classmates and decide to never touch a weight.
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On a fitness board?

And is yours the only method of doing so? What makes your method the only right one? If you're suggesting that conventional hypertrophy-inducing weight lifting will make one unable to reap the benefits of any internal martial art, then I'll have to disagree.
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First, I am not here to defend my methods, I am here in this thread to promote options for the martial art desired. Showing that the enemy of Taiji is muscle tension, it clearly excludes Taiji from being a proper choice.

Second, I gave a very simple statement showing what should be a PROPER choice for someone trying to train conventionally and you have ignored my statements of how the art is affected by the physical training. -Which is why you disagree. Had you realized that each art is affected by training, you would look at why, and maybe not disagree.
Which is where lineage comes into play. You must know, being a teacher of gong fu, that lineage is the most obvious way to trace legitimacy. Being defensive towards stating yours makes me question that.
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I never claimed I taught ANY martial art.

Also, lineage means nothing if your lineage gets some of it wrong. You could be the second person to learn Ameri-fu and find out the 17th person down from you finally gets a concept you missed.

For instance: when a whole lineage builds a mystical phylosophy around having "eyes like an eagle", you have trouble. The next guy in line figures out that eagles see with PERIPHERAL VISION. Now what? His whole lineage is meaningless since he just figured out the piece they have all missed.
That, or what certifications do you possess?
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Again, irrelevant.
Many martial artists never train like strong men, they train primarily type I fibers. Their power comes from control of chi, which you're equating to the effect powerlifting has on the CNS.
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That is laughable considering you are trying to say EXTERNAL artists do not train like strongmen becasue power comes from something that EXTERNAL ARTISTS cannot even develop.

Chi is NOT a mystical force, and very little usable can even be developed in a non-INTERNAL system due to tension. External systems are all about muscle, bone, and joint strength. I just posted that previously. Chi is the result of proper circulatory response through LACK OF TENSION. Had you done some research, you would now see how crazy this discussion is.

External arts are for people developing muscle, strength, and agility.

INTERNAL arts are for people developing health and maximum effectiveness through efficient energy usage.

In any case, I have tried to help the originator of the thread, and refuse to derail any further.
 
You're right. This IS laughable. You're here promoting your type of lifting while dodging all questions about where you're coming from. You can't grasp half of what I ask and instead choose to pick apart my posts in order to make me look like I'm attacking you, which I wasn't. This isn't a debate, it's a discussion. You can let me know when you're ready to take part in one, because I'd like to take it up with you at a later date.
 
Um, thank's for all the replies,
Just would like to point out that self defence isn't to important as I haven't been in a fight since I was 15 about 7 years ago,

Since I live in a rural town &the next "city" is 20 min away - Palmerston North which has a population of 80(ish) thousand my choices are limited,
I can go to 3 Karate's, Two are very Dodgy looking, doesn't look great.

LeiYunFat Thanks for the first coupla posts giving their pros/cons
RockHard My choices are limited & I like the spiritual (? Chi control & what not) side of it.

Hawk it did sound like a product placement :p you did raise some good points.
also I'm not skinny/sickly, I suppose not bit less then Chubby, I have started a couple of weeks ago to start doing crunches & Push Ups.

Again thanks for all the info :eek:
 
Hawk's right about one thing, there's nothing spiritual or mystical about chi. It's just something you do, and can learn to improve in magnitude.
 
Without getting in to a big debate I'd like to correct a few misconceptions previously mentioned in this thread. Really only to 'clear things up because I often hear these ideas going around.

Hawk said:
Chi is the result of proper circulatory response through LACK OF TENSION. Had you done some research, you would now see how crazy this discussion is.
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Taiji is not about 'lack of tension', Its about the correct tension. Ji is the result of the correct body position, correct muscle activation, sensitivity to individual muscles, grounding and intention.

Hawk said:
External arts are for people developing muscle, strength, and agility.
INTERNAL arts are for people developing health and maximum effectiveness through efficient energy usage.
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Maybe in the west, you could say this is a good stereotype. But This is not true of martial art based Taiji. People seem to think that all Taiji is practiced slowly, however Taiji is extremely explosive (how would it ever be an effective martial art if it wasnt?)

As for external martial arts being for people developing muscle, strength and agility I would disagree. Agility yes, But in my 13years in Karate I have never seen an example of external arts making you stronger. As you well know strength comes from iron, not the repetitive motions of a martial art.

Hawk said:
Modern methodology of weight training causes muscle tension which is counterproductive in Taiji. Taiji requires complete lack of tension to be effective.
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I have found that my improvement in strength over the last 3 years had improved my Taiji greatly. I have been studying Taijiquan (Tai-Chi-Chuan) for 8years now and I have never had such a rapid boost in control and I now find it easyer to activate a particular muscle. Yes you loose some sensitivity but you gain so much as well.

Weight training is great for Taiji.
Hawk said:
Taiji is one of only 3 internal systems, all other martial arts are external.
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I'm not quite sure where you got that from. Yes there are more external systems than internal but to limit them to only 3 is a bit misleading. No one will ever be able to count all the styles as many are still (even today) secretive to families and small groups. However Just to broaden the spectrum a bit (as talking about the difference between Int and Ext MA would take hours) here are a few martial arts that you may not know are classed as internal.

More than 2/3rds of Gong fu styles
Wado Ryu Karate
Wrestling
Sumo
Judo
Akido
Hapkido


Very very briefly - An Internal style is one which uses sensitivity to connect with the opponent, feel where they are going, and use their own force against them or take them down using their own mistakes.
External MA are martial arts which do not connect with their opponent before attacking. External MA will use the eyes and often go against a direct force where in Internal guy would flow with it and alter the direction of that force.

Back to the question. Yes Taiji is a great tool. However it is (I would class) an advanced martial art and you would have to be very special to be able to apply it to self defense within your 1st few years of training. But dont stop, cos you'll find many uses for it as you get better. If you want to learn self defense then do Taiji and another art that you enjoy. I wont advise a particular Gong fu or karate, just go with a class that you like.
 
I do know that :D

I'm not expecting to be able to heal others or levitate etc, though it would be nice.

As I understand it, it's a Deep relaxation/self Hypnosis kinda of thing.

Cheers for all the help :)
 
Daniel, just go visit the class and see if you mesh with it. I've been to a number of Taiji schools and some have emphasized the spiritual aspects...some have not.

Earle has some good tapes out there but he's a bit out there with his marketing and his Wudang Qi Disruption Forms. I've only met two of his students but both were very ummm...what's the word...proud, boastful, full of themselves, etc. Earle is very short in his emails at time, accusses people of ripping off his forms...but this isn't an Earle bashing thread, so I digress.
 
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Thanks R.Lewis I didn't see your post.
I now easily understand the difference between int & ext, as well as a few other points

With All the info I've gotten I'm definatly going to take a few classes minimium.

Thanks again everyone
 
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