Starvation mode is a dieting myth ?

[KaraCooks]

edit: yes, my girlfriend told me that if you go for more than 5 hours, you can run into problems and is one of the main causes of obesity

Source please? Seriously if you can show me ONE single reliable source, I'll back down on this, but as of right now I've provided LOTS of reliable links that debunk that - even a link to a pubmed study.

The main cause of obesity is eating too much and moving too little. Going 5 hours w/out a meal does not cause problems for the vast majority of the population (unless you're talking about diabetics, people with hypo/hyperglycemia, or other even more rare disorders).

 

[allcdnboy1]

what do you think causes diabetes in the first place? I went to a fund-raiser last year for diabetes and that was one of their biggest focuses.

3-Mar-2008
University of Minnesota School of Public Health Project Eating Among Teens (EAT) researchers have found further evidence to support the importance of encouraging youth to eat breakfast regularly. Researchers examined the association between breakfast frequency and five-year body weight change in more than 2,200 adolescents, and the results indicate that daily breakfast eaters consumed a healthier diet and were more physically active than breakfast skippers during adolescence. Five years later, the daily breakfast eaters also tended to gain less weight and have lower body mass index levels an indicator of obesity risk compared with those who had skipped breakfast as adolescents.

NY Times and Fitness Magazine

Increases your risk of diabetes up to 50 percent

How: Not having that morning meal increases the appetite-stimulating hormone ghrelin, making you hungrier and likely to eat more.

The fix: Eat high-fiber cereal with low-fat milk and one-half cup of fruit in the morning. One study of people with prediabetes found that eating high-fiber cereals made their cells respond better to insulin. Consuming dairy products may also cut the risk for insulin resistance by 72 percent.

 

[allcdnboy1]

if you want an actual study:

 

[MAR1984]

Sorry if I'm out of line here, but WTF is going on in this thread? And the other thread that was stickied and then not in the advanced section?


OK, so I'm not a kid and I don't skip breakfast, and eat only 2 meals per day because its convenient for me. I eat the amount of calories that are calculated for me to lose 1% of my current body weight per week based on my height, weight, and age. I eat appropriate levels of fats, proteins, and carbs. Any Comments related to the original topic I.E. starvation mode and losing weight/fat?

OK, now I'm an adult and I do IF. I eat all my calories in a 4 hour window between 4PM and 8PM, and I drink nothing but water or sleep the other 20hours of the day. I eat the amount of calories that are calculated for me to lose 1% of my current body weight per week based on my height, weight, and age. I eat appropriate levels of fats, proteins, and carbs. Any Comments related to the original topic I.E. starvation mode and losing weight/fat?


I've been a member here for a year. I've read all the stickies and read posts where moderators gave links to research. Now all of a sudden, I start reading posts by the site admin flat out calling moderators wrong, and not only that, but doing it publically in the newcomer section as well as creating a sticky that flat out contradicts other stickies.

So I repeat, WTF is going on here today? Why all of a sudden the big hoopla about "starvation mode"? I thought it was basically proven and generally accepted throughout the forums here to be a myth, that your body doesn't instantaneously adapt to daily fluctuations in calories by entering any starvation mode, and that your body doesn't just store more fat based on what time you eat it? Anyone going to bother explaining what is really going on here?


::EDIT::

Here's a non-hypothetical example: I ate lunch today at 1. I'm leaving work right now and heading out for my weekly golf league, where I will not only not be eating, but burning MORE calories by walking nine holes and golfing. I won't be eating again until probably 8:30 tonight. Thats 7 1/2 hours without eating. So... my body is going to enter starvation mode between now and then, and then when I eat dinner, especially since it will probably be a carb-filled subway sandwich with lots of veggies (veggies are still carbs, right?), and later in the evening only an hour or so before bed, meaning my body is going to just store my whole dinner as fat and its going to hurt my weight loss progress?

 

[KaraCooks]

if you want an actual study:

From this exact report, very first paragraph (bolding mine):

BACKGROUND: Several cross-sectional studies reported that heavier children eat breakfast less often. However, no longitudinal studies have addressed whether skipping breakfast leads to excessive weight gain.

Again, the report was about children, not adults, and focused on academics, not obesity.

Edited: I"m really NOT trying to be a jerk about this. Really. It's just that there are *so* many studies that show that skipping meals or eating on an IF type schedule does NOT contribute to obesity. The studies that have to do with children focus on academics mostly and on nutrition next. They show that children who are not exposed to proper nutritional concepts *do* risk obesity later in life, but the correlation of not eating breakfast has not been proven to be causation when it comes to obesity. In other words - it's not the missing meal, it's the lack of nutritional knowledge that the child receives.

 

[Steve]

The biggest reported drop in metabolic rate was demonstrated in Ancel Keys famous Minnesota Starvation Experiment.

In it, already lean men showed a reduction in metabolic rate of 40% following a 50% deficit over 6 months.

Lean people and obese people to not respond similarly to caloric deficits. Reason being, well one of the primary being, hormones. Things such as Leptin is in abundant supply when you're carrying around lots of fat and this little bugger let's the brain know you're not starving.... even when calories are kept low.

Another huge note to point out is that the 40% reduction in metabolic rate demonstrated by Keys, the vast majority of it was accounted for by the loss in weight the test subjects experienced. Read that twice. There's no magic to this. If we lose weight, we have less tissue to support, it costs less energy to move around, etc, etc. and therefore we require less calories than when we were at our heavier weights.

This is the same reason why a 400 lb person can get away with eating 3500 calories per day and lose weight, but after they lose 200 lbs... that same 3500 calories can be a surplus.

It's not that your metabolism slowed. It's that your calorie out side of the energy balance equation is now lower since you're smaller.

The starvation response can be defined as, then, the drop in metabolic rate beyond what's expected given the reduction in weight/tissue/etc. In other words, if someone loses 200 lbs, obviously their maintenance is going to be lower. However, often times it's lower than what would be expected and this is the starvation response... or as I'd say it's more appropriately labeled... the adaptive response to dieting.

And as Keys demonstrated... it wasn't very large in prolonged, starvation dieting in lean men.

IF LEAN MEAN DON'T HAVE A LARGE ADAPTIVE RESPONSE... OVERWEIGHT FOLKS DON'T HAVE A THING TO WORRY ABOUT INTRADAY.

It's simply not how our bodies work.

 

[KaraCooks]

Well I guess presenting actual facts and references to show that the board admin is wrong gets you removed from a mod position w/out even the courtesy of an email or a PM. That says a lot about the way this board is run and the mindset of the admin.

I'm sure this post will get me banned but at this point I don't really care.

It's been fun, guys.

 

[jodieleah]

hey

hey guys

i am sorry i ever started this thread now

i hope nobody is leaving coz of this i would feel so bad only been here a few days
i started it just to get info on opinions

jodieleah

 

[ForRealThisTime]

This forum is great I must admit, particularly the support shown by members toward other members. I have however steered clear of the main forum and stayed in the diary section as I have seen some of the replies to threads and the wrath they receive for giving their opinion.

Sometimes it appears that some people think they know it all. I would suggest looking in the mirror and thinking "if I knew it all wouldnt I be the weight I want to be". This is not directed at any one person in particular but I would urge everyone on this site to remember we are all here for the same reason and should be pulling the same direction.

There is nothing wrong with having a difference of opinion, you can put forth your point of view and readers can read it and take it on board/make up their own mind. But there is no one person on here that knows everything and I am happy to read all opinions/facts/information.

Be friendly everyone, it promotes a better environment on the forum and will make it a welcoming place for new members rather than appearing like a hostile situation which will scare people off.

 

[Kayshiz]

hey guys

i am sorry i ever started this thread now

i hope nobody is leaving coz of this i would feel so bad only been here a few days
i started it just to get info on opinions

jodieleah

Just like with any other subject or field of study, there will always be people who disagree about it.

It's when you stop asking the questions that a problem is born.

You didn't start anything that hadn't already been started.

Everyone will form their own opinions.

At this point I think the best thing anyone can take away from this thread is to be as informed as possible, as personal beliefs are hard to change.

 

[Steve]

This forum is great I must admit, particularly the support shown by members toward other members. I have however steered clear of the main forum and stayed in the diary section as I have seen some of the replies to threads and the wrath they receive for giving their opinion.

Sometimes it appears that some people think they know it all. I would suggest looking in the mirror and thinking "if I knew it all wouldnt I be the weight I want to be". This is not directed at any one person in particular but I would urge everyone on this site to remember we are all here for the same reason and should be pulling the same direction.

There is nothing wrong with having a difference of opinion, you can put forth your point of view and readers can read it and take it on board/make up their own mind. But there is no one person on here that knows everything and I am happy to read all opinions/facts/information.

Be friendly everyone, it promotes a better environment on the forum and will make it a welcoming place for new members rather than appearing like a hostile situation which will scare people off.

I agree that being friendly is important. But there's a big difference between opinions and facts. And sometimes what some people believe to be facts are merely opinions that are so ingrained in their minds that they have a hard time believing anything else.

This is why it's important to present the facts as objectively and fairly as possible.

We're all not here for the same reasons, either.

While you might be hear to learn, socialize, gain support, etc... I might be here to help ensure the integrity of information, educate, etc. It's a diverse community, as in community is, and there's always going to be differences.

Handling them maturely, friendly, and productively is the name of the game.

 

[ForRealThisTime]

I agree that being friendly is important. But there's a big difference between opinions and facts. And sometimes what some people believe to be facts are merely opinions that are so ingrained in their minds that they have a hard time believing anything else.

This is why it's important to present the facts as objectively and fairly as possible.

We're all not here for the same reasons, either.

While you might be hear to learn, socialize, gain support, etc... I might be here to help ensure the integrity of information, educate, etc. It's a diverse community, as in community is, and there's always going to be differences.

Handling them maturely, friendly, and productively is the name of the game.

Fair enough except for one thing. What you may consider fact might not tally with another persons experience. Life is, or should be, a continual learning experience. You should never switch off to any new ideas, remember at one point in time it was FACT that the world was flat, or at least some people believed it was factual. Some of the things that have assisted me with weight loss might not work for others.

Whilst at heart I am a skeptic, in pretty much every aspect of life, and usually take the approach that something requires scientific evidence before I will accept it, I do still realise that the nature of people means that we are all individuals and therefore different people will react to different situation is very different ways.

Another example of this is your comment regarding me saying "we are all here for the same reason" I meant in general terms and attempted to calm the situation and make the OP feel better about the fact that they had not started what this thread has turned in to. You didnt recognise that (or maybe you did) and you chose to take it literally and then corrected me on it. I am an intelligent human being, I am fully aware there are people on here for different reasons but I had not realised this forum was so literal and clinical.

Now I will give my own personal experience rather than quoting studies I was not involved in. I can say with great honesty that not eating at regular intervals makes me feel more hungry and have less energy which in turn makes me feel tired and less likely to exercise. This may not be a "starvation mode" but it will not be conducive to me feeling good and having the energy I need to be active. I believe this information is honest, simple to understand and is FACTUAL based upon my personal experience. Whilst the OP will not be able to find out with 100% accuracy if the way they eat is effecting their metabolic rate without having some serious supervisory tests carried out they might be able to use my experience and incorporate it in to their routine, or not.

I do not claim to be any expert but I dont consider people who google medical research results to be either. I think real life experience is great to hear and the published medical research results are an interesting backup but shouldnt be taken as gospel either. I know lots of people who have read books on the mechanics of automobiles... can they fix a car... No.

 

[Steve]

Fair enough except for one thing. What you may consider fact might not tally with another persons experience.

You're confusing facts with anecdotes.

If I say something factually, I have the peer-reviewed research to back it up.

If I say something anecdotally... I'll couch it with something like, "I've found XYZ to be optimal" or whatever.

Life is, or should be, a continual learning experience. You should never switch off to any new ideas, remember at one point in time it was FACT that the world was flat, or at least some people believed it was factual. Some of the things that have assisted me with weight loss might not work for others.

Yea, I think you might be misjudging my original point and how I view something such as weight loss. I think this because what you just said defines my approach to life.

Isaac Asimov's "Relativity of Wrong" is one of my favorite pieces. You should check it out some time and see how it compares to what you just said to me. Not being facetious either... if you haven't read it, I recommend it.

Here's the thing:

If we're debating anecdotes... it's silly to debate in the first place. Anecdote isn't controlled. This is where correlations are confused for causations. A prime example is crunches to "rip up" the abs. Someone will claim they became ripped by doing a billion and one crunches neverminding the fact they dieted intelligently too.

They might share their anecdote about crunches with the community but it would be dishonest of me, as a moderator here, to not speak up about the available research explaining why their anecdote is most likely incorrect.

Sharing anecdote is fine. And I encourage it. It's another tool for learning what *might* work for you. And it's certainly going to differ from person to person as you point out. This difference has to do more often with varying sets of circumstances then it does underlying biology and chemistry... but that's moot.

It's when we're debating scientific fact using objectivity that things are more cut and dry. And that doesn't mean science defines reality. It merely explains it. And it's certainly not infallible. But it's the closest thing we've got.

The point is, if you're making a blanket claim that you're trying to apply to everyone, such as the very first post in this thread, you damn well better have some serious research to support said claim.

If, on the other hand you're suggesting this is what you've found to be the case for yourself then that requires much less rigorous proof, if any at all.

Mind, I'm using you in the general sense.

Context is everything and the reason we're seeing some serious questioning in this thread is due to the blanket claims that were made as facts for everyone.

That's all.

I know lots of people who have read books on the mechanics of automobiles... can they fix a car... No.

I do this for a living.

You have a point. I have a point. I think we're both missing something from each. No sense in belaboring this any further though. Hopefully you've taken no offense; I certainly have not. Take care and look forward to seeing you on the board.

 

[bluemomma]

Hey there,

Well, metabolism is a wonky thing LOL. Your body prefers to burn carbs first (instead of fats) since carbs are easier to break down. If there is no carb or fat present (ie -- you didn't eat), then your body will use up glycogen first (stored in muscles) which is why you wind up feeling tired and dehydrated when you don't eat all day. Once that supply is gone, if you do not eat food, your body will begin dissolving muscle instead of fat (it wants to store and hold onto fat as long as possible). The only way to *trick* your body into using fat for fuel on a regular basis, instead of carbs, is to not eat carbs (ie - atkins diet). It works because you put your body into ketosis. Great for short term results, damaging to your body long term.

Long story short, if you want to burn fat, eat low fat, low carb, high protein and exercise at 70% of your cardio rate. That should do it. You'll plateau eventually and have to adjust, but barring any kind of medical issue (hypothyroid, diabetes, etc) you should start seeing results fairly quickly.

Also, consider moderate weight lifting if you can. Muscle tissue burns more calories at rest. Presuming you can build muscle and not increase your food intake, that will also help burn fat fast.

Cheers,

bluemomma

 

[MAR1984]

hi bluemamma and welcome to the argumen... er... thread.

I hope you'll take some time to read through the stickies. I don't have the credentials to argue with you point to point on your last post, but information I've researched and learned from members on this site directly refutes some of the points you've brought up. I think I can at least safely claim without being required to claim sources, that the atkins diet and putting your body in ketosis is not the ONLY way to lose fat. I'm not even sure I would call it the best way. Actually, I don't even know I could identify a best way, at least not one I can back up with research.