Should I train on a weight machine first before I try to use free weights?

[felici]

Do I need to use a weight machine to build up my strength before trying to use free weights?

Me again.

I thought this trainer was just making a suggestion when he said he thought it would be good if I started on the weight machines first, and then moved to free weights. However, he meant it and that is what we did today. I figured he might just want to use them to assess me. He did first say this at a time when he had done nothing more than talk about what exercise I was already doing, and take my pulse. However, I understand that even before seeing me use anything, he genuinely believed it would be taking a risk for me to start on free weights, before I build up my strength for a while on the machines.

However, I'm already having trouble feeling confident that he knows as much as I want.

I could see his point(s). Clients don't always remember to tell you important things in advance, and might hurt themselves because of that. It would be safer if I had more strength in some key areas before I started. I am weak. After the first session, I will be working without him there to check that I am getting it right. He may have had other reasons too.

Then he said that because the reason I was seeing him in the first place, was to get started in using free weights, he would show me how in two days time. And that it would be good if I went back into the club tomorrow, so that I can practice the machine movements a little first, which would make Thursday more effective.

So I'm unsure again. This idea is a new one to me, even though I can see where he's coming from. Also, he seems to be giving me a compromise between what he thinks I should do (which might be wrong anyway), and what I went to him for. Like, to me, if he really thinks I shouldn't use the free weights yet, why is he showing me on Thursday.? Why not say first up that he wants me to use the machines for a while and build up my strength, and then he will show me? I won't remember what to do unless I start practicing straight away.

Yeah, so he doesn't make as much sense to me as I would have liked, one way and another. But what should I do? Let him show me the free weights now and start using them? or put off our next meeting and train on the machines for a while?

How strong am I? Not very! I could do what he asked with the machines unweighted. Then he put them up to low weights - like 5 or 15 (or 20-25?) [edit: the 1st, 2nd or 3rd little bars]and I could do them, but on the 4th machine my left shoulder (top of my arm, not back), started hurting at the higher weight and he dropped it back. I could finish it then with little pain. On the leg presses he started it at 40 straight off and that was fine. (I don't know if any of those weights are lb or kg, but I could find out.)

At my assessment last week he asked me to do as many push ups as I could. Not proper push ups, kneeling ones, but with my knees far back behind my backside and I did 11 and then he said to stop. Also crunches, but I can barely move to do them, so I did the little stumpy movements I could for a while.

Also, I don't know if this truly matters, but I don't have any latissimus dorsi muscles in my back as they were moved for a reconstruction. The doctor who did the surgery said that the only movement that would be affected would be the one I would use if I was pushing myself up out of a bath. It was 6 years ago, and I usually forget about it altogether.

 

[maleficent]

I don't think it makes a difference really... After having spend time on machines and using free weights -the free weights makes you more conscious of what you are doing and getting the technique down properly.. (use a mirror) With machines, i found it was easy to get lazy and sloppy and worry less about technique -yes, I could use more weight but if i wasn't oding it properly -it defeated the purpose.

I'd say go with what makes you comfortable and just don't go too heavy a weight at first - get technique down then move up with weights...

 

[Steve]

Free weights or machines for a novice is an age-old debate.

Truthfully, I'm on the fence.

For starters though, if you are truly paying this trainer for instruction of the free weight lifts, I don't see why he's worrying about building up a core stabilization of strength. To teach the free weight lifts, it's not like you are going to be lifting anywhere near maximal loads. You're going to be using extremely light loads and focusing on form/execution. I don't think a base needs to be established for that, IMO.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding the situation though.

I'll tell you one thing, you aren't going to build any serious "base" in 2 days, lol.

If you want to get technical, IMO what a trainer should start with is analyzing your posture (stationary and dynamically) for imbalances. If imbalances exist, which for most people they do, going straight into a strength training routine without first working out the "kinks" will only serve to perpetuate said "kinks."

 

[Vital]

on my personal experience, i say free weight ... i think they give a little more control

 

[eggy]

That doesn't really make any sense to me, using machines to build up your strength first. The whole point of weightlifting, be it free weights or machines, is to build up your strength! Also, it's not like they don't make free weights in very small increments if you aren't very strong. From what I know, the most important part of free weightlifting is to make sure you have the correct posture, and your instructor should start training you in that from day 1--since as Steve said, that's why you are paying the guy.

If you are planning a program with free weights I feel like the only purpose in using the weight training machines would be to possibly demonstrate how the correct posture would feel, not "build up strength." MAYBE acquire muscle memory, but that's pushing it. (Also that makes the 2-days "pre-training" more understandable.) However, free weights and machines don't call for exactly the same posture, so I don't know how advantageous it would actually be to spend a lot of time on them for that purpose.

Just my opinion.

 

[felici]

Thanks a lot everyone for all the thoughts.

It's been helpful to feel that I can get some knowledgeable input seeing as I don't know much about this myself but really didn't feel confident leaving all the decision making to this particular guy.

I paid the club for 3 introductory sessions, and asked if I could use these to have my fitness assessed and have someone give me a start at using free weights. It really hasn't worked out! I do think he was saying that using the machines would give me more of a feel for the correct movements, but as others here have said, even that doesn't make all that much sense.

I've decided I will use what he's shown me with the machine weights for now and revisit the free weights later, I just don't have enough confidence in him really to pursue that just now, even though I'd like still like to. I might hold that in reserve still for the possible weight loss plateau I might hit some time.

The upside of all this is that it's sparked me to spend some worthwhile time with the elliptical and now some of these weight machines - probably time I would have spent doing either nothing, or something less intense, and I will keep on adding some of this into my week now.

...
If you want to get technical, IMO what a trainer should start with is analyzing your posture (stationary and dynamically) for imbalances. If imbalances exist, which for most people they do, going straight into a strength training routine without first working out the "kinks" will only serve to perpetuate said "kinks."

That's interesting, Steve. Are you talking about things like trying to use my weaker arm at the same level as I use the stronger one? Things like that? Is there anything I can do about it myself?

 

[Steve]

The goal is to have opposing muscles have comparable strength levels and length. Think of the quads (front of the thigh) and hamstrings (back of the thigh) as being opposing muscles.

Most people have imbalances though, due to the lack of activity commonly seen in today's world. Take office jobs for example. People who work in offices find themselves in the seated position for hours on end. This puts your body in a position that can lead to a lot of imbalances.

For instance, your hip flexor musculature is in the contracted, active position most of the day, which leads to tight muscles. On the other side of the spectrum, your glutes are stretched and inactive. Do this all day everyday and presto.... welcome the imbalance.

Same goes for your chest and upper-back, while sitting.... chest being overactive and upper-back being underactive.

The list goes on and on.....

The trained eye will catch these imbalances by way of movement analysis. If an imbalance exists, it will play out in your biomechanics (movement) as some form of *break* in proper mechanics.

Or heck, some imbalances can be noticed with no movement.

As an example related to the overactive hip flexors and underactive glutes above. In this scenario... it's common to see an anterior pelvic tilt... which simply means the tight hip flexors are pulling/tilting your pelvis forward, and the underactive glutes are allowing this to happen. It will play out in your posture by causing an arch in your low back.

When imbalances are identified, in reality, they should be corrected before any major strength training is done. Think of postural analysis and correction as the foundation of which strength is built upon.... if that makes sense to you.

A good trainer will be able to not only identify, but correct these sort of issues.

Follow me?

 

[felici]

Yes, I do. Thanks.

I think this might be like the issue with the muscle on the outside of the knee coming on and the inside one getting progressively more left behind so that the knee cap stops tracking properly and becomes painful? This is something myself and others in my family have had trouble with and seen a physiotherapist about. So I have a strategy I know about to work on that. I think my knee's not bad now, but I will pay it a bit more attention.

Also, I'm aware that I would be better off if my posture kept my hips pushed forward more. I think I learned that in a pilates class I did once. I guess I could chase up the movement to practice for that too.

Chances are that my physio, who is pretty special, and in whom I have mega confidence, could check me out and give me some advice about this.

Thanks for flagging the issue.

 

[Steve]

Yes, I do. Thanks.

I think this might be like the issue with the muscle on the outside of the knee coming on and the inside one getting progressively more left behind so that the knee cap stops tracking properly and becomes painful? This is something myself and others in my family have had trouble with and seen a physiotherapist about. So I have a strategy I know about to work on that. I think my knee's not bad now, but I will pay it a bit more attention.

Yup, most of the time when someone is complaining about a pain at a specific joint, said pain is stimulated from some muscle imbalance up or downstream from the joint.

The kinetic chain (nervous system, muscle system, bone system) are all inter-related. A problem with one leads to a problem with all.

Chances are that my physio, who is pretty special, and in whom I have mega confidence, could check me out and give me some advice about this.

Definitely worth a visit if you have confidence in him/her.

 

[felici]

Thanks for your advice Steve, both here and in the other thread. It's been really comforting. I'm sure the extra confidence I've got from it has helped me stay positive about making some changes and getting more out of my exercise time.

 

[Steve]

Anytime really. Your enlightenment is my happiness.

Sounds silly, but it's the truth. In my world, the more informed people are the better. And most trainers today conflict that ideology.