Seeking Advice, 5 Day Split..

[thecaguy]

Hi all,

I am somewhat new to working out, I am 35 and not very athletic. I am 6'1 and 205 lb. I have been doing a 5 day split for the past 6 months, it feels ok, but I have concerns in terms of volume and frequency. My gym has limited equipment, so I use the Smith Machine a lot. Her is my program in general:

Sunday - Legs
Monday - Chest
Tuesday - Back
Wednesday - Off
Thursday - Shoulders
Friday - Arms
Saturday - Off

Day 1 (Legs)
* Squat (Smith Machine) 4 sets x 8 reps
* Leg ext 3 sets x 10 reps
* Leg curl 3 sets x 10 reps
* Calf raise with dumbbells 3 sets x 25 reps

Day 2 (Chest)
* Flat Bench Press (Smith Machine) 4 sets x 10-10-8-6 reps
* Flat Bench Dumbbell Press 3 sets x 10 reps
* Flat Dumbbell Flys 3 sets x 10 reps
* 30 Degree Bench Press (Smith Machine) 3 sets x 8reps
* Dumbbell pullover 3 sets x 10 reps

Day 3 (Back)
* Deadlift (Smith Machine) 4 sets x 8 reps
* Bent Over EZ Bar Row 3 sets x 10 reps
* One arm dumbbell row 3 sets x 10 reps
* Cable Straight Arm Lat Pull Down 3 sets x 10 reps
* Wide Grip Lat Pulldown 3 sets x 10 reps

Day 5 (Shoulder)
* Overhead Press (Smith Machine) 5 sets x 10-10-10-6-6 reps
* Arnold Dumbbell Press 5 sets x 10-10-10-6-6 reps
* Side Lateral Raise 3 sets x 10 reps
* Front 2-Dumbbell Raise 3 sets x 10 reps
* Shoulder Dumbbell Shrugs 3 sets x 25 reps

Day 6 (Arm)
* EZ Bar Biceps Curl 6 sets x 8-8-8-8-8-20 reps
* Dumbbell Incline Curl (45deg) 6 sets x 8-8-8-8-8-20 reps
* Close Grip Bench Press (Smith Machine) 6 sets x 8-8-8-8-8-20 reps
* Lying EZ Bar Triceps Extension 6 sets x 8-8-8-8-8-20 reps
* Cable Triceps Pushdown 6 sets x 8-8-8-8-8-20 reps

Any input will be appreciated. Thnx

 

[CrazyOldMan]

Sorry to be answering questions with questions but to give you guidance I need some basic info.
What are you wanting to get from your training? Aesthetic weight gain/loss, improved performance of set type etc.
What do the gym have there?

2 basic things I can say straight off the bat.
Sticking to the same program for 6 months will be getting boring for you and your body. Training requires controlled overload and structured variation is key to this. There is no point changing everything weekly but it is easy to let training go stale and un-progressive. Variation frequency etc. will depend on your goals.
Your sessions are upper body especially arms heavy. Not uncommon by a long way but consider how little muscle there should be in your shoulders compared to your whole legs and it gives an idea that you may be a tad uneven there. I am a compound movement freak so body most parts are trained most sessions, that is good for me because I have no delusions of sanity.
The arms bit. Bench press, shoulder press, all other upper body presses, prime mover is triceps because primarily you are straightening your arms. Lat pull, rowing, including upright etc. prime mover is biceps because primarily you are bending your arms. You have 3 sessions where you are using your arms as prime mover much of the time and then add an arms session to the end of the week. I did say this wasn't uncommon and I can go further, it is so common that it is one of the most common reason for arms not growing as much as people want due to them being trained before they have gone through the growth cycle.

Balance is not easy for most, my training isn't perfectly balanced and in truth never will be, but it is
close enough to be safe and give continuous improvement.

Welcome to the forum. Hopefully with some detail we can help you. There are some good stickies from Goldfish in the weight training section too that could give you a good head start.

 

[thecaguy]

Sorry to be answering questions with questions but to give you guidance I need some basic info.
What are you wanting to get from your training? Aesthetic weight gain/loss, improved performance of set type etc.
What do the gym have there?

Basicaly my goal is to lose body fat and build muscle at the same time, and have a good looking body. I met someone who told me I was overtraining, too much volume and too little frequency.. That was a surprise, I never looked it that way, always thought the more sets and exercises on a muscle group, the better results I would get.

Now I am planning to switch to a Push/Pull/Legs routine or a Whole Body workout, but I am trying to figure out. I am also trying to figure out how many sets and different exercises should I apply for each muscle group.

What I have in mind is something similiar to this:

Push (Chest/Triceps/Shoulders):

Flat Barbell Bench Press: 3x10
Seated Barbell Overhead Press: 3x10
Incline Barbell Bench Press: 3x8
Dumbbell Side Lateral Raise: 3x10
Cable Triceps Pushdowns 3x10
Overhead Dumbbell Extension or similar triceps exercise: 3x10
Shrugs(circuit machine or dumbbells): 3x10

Pull (Back/Biceps):

Deadlifts 3x8
Barbell Rows: 3x10
Lat Pulldowns 3x10
Barbell Bicep Curls 4x10
Dumbbell Incline Curl 3x10

Legs (Quad/Ham/Calves):

Barbell Squats: 4x8
Leg Extensions: 3x10
Hamstring Curls: 3x10
Standing Calf Raises (circuit machine): 5x10-12

I am planning to do this like 2 on, 1 off, 1 on, 1 off, so 1 week I will have 5 workout days, the next week 4..

Does this sound better in overall development from your experience?

 

[CrazyOldMan]

Aesthetics is the most common goal, which helps because it's the one with most information around it.

The whole overtraining thing is fun, I have been doing it for decades, because I train for the love of it, so don't care.
Training causes damage to the muscle tissue, that is ironically the whole point of doing it. The body responds to this by repairing it and if the damage is frequent adding more tissue to adapt to the demands. The idea as far as your body is concerned is to minimise damage.
The next part seems very obvious, but there is no-one who hasn't lost sight of it, more than once. Repair comes before growth, there is some overlap but the more complete the repair the more chance there is for growth. The reason this is hard to keep track of is because if the damage isn't repeated the muscle is seen as waste and can be catabolised for energy. So getting the measure right between under training, optimum training and overtraining is practically impossible. If anyone tells you they have this 100% sorted, smile and nod, they are not from your planet.
Best guage is the ache. Ideally your should have stopped aching in an area before hitting it again, or at least almost finished aching. So if you have done chest, shoulders and back, your arms are dead and sore, training them will not equal more growth.

Your sessions are still arm heavy. Need to remember that on your push session the tris have been prime mover on 3 exercises before you hit them with 2 more. Where possible try to remember the arms carry small muscle groups, biceps, triceps and forearms are small compared to pectorals, lats, quads etc. If your thinking one or two exercises are enough for the larger body parts which heavily utilise arms then just one tricep and bicep finisher will be ample.

Shrugs are a pull movement, you are pulling the weight up. Shifting this will give you nice exercise quantity balance.

I would likely put in another compound leg movement, because I am like that, but in truth that is fine.

One thing to consider is that balance is Pull, Push, Legs, Core which I was taught as Back, Arms, Legs, Stomach because BALS is easier to remember than PPLC, though the latter is more accurate.
With your work involving the smith machine your core will not be as engaged as it would totally freestanding.
Imbalanced core work is dangerously common, people want a pretty 6 pack so work their abs like crazy while ignoring the lower back. This would seem less stupid if lower back pain wasn't the biggest area of mobility issue worldwide. If you don't strengthen something it becomes a weakness, so hit the core thoroughly with things like plank, balance work etc.

In general the split you have is good I would add the core work to it as a finisher and one missing ingredient below to other days, or tacked on to the end of your sessions.

Your sessions are all weights, which as male trainer is again very common. You are at the younger end of where this becomes more important to rectify. If you went into a hospital and asked who had been admitted due to problem with weak bicep you would get a confused look or be laughed at, do the same about a weak heart and that's a large chunk of their intake.
I know you are predominantly after aesthetics and for guys this generally means more muscles but there is generally a target activity this type of training is aiming toward, ideally involving a 'training' partner. Consider that it will serve you well if you get to this stage and have the stamina to keep 'training' longer. Cardio is good as a part of a balanced program for fat loss too, so it will help.
There is a school of thought that cardio means static state, dull and boring. It can be if you want, I personally do 3 lots of static state a week on a lunchtime run, but I am sad enough to enjoy this. However I also do an interval session once a week too which challenges my cardio system just as much. Cardio is anything that keeps your heart rate elevated for a prolonged period, at least 20 minutes, without you getting stitch too often, this can be circuit training, with or without weights, aerobics, cycling, running, combat training or anything else that has no breaks and keeps you moving. If you find the type you enjoy it will serve to keep you either alive longer or living a more fulfilling life longer at least, make you more capable and generally leaner.
Cardio burns muscle as well as fat, the argument against it. Yes it does, so does all training, it's called catabolism or cannibalism as a mate of mine used to say appropriately. Cardio does this more because it is usually working more of the body for a longer time, but there is good news, it really truly doesn't make any difference whatsoever. The body will assess if it's worth rebuilding the muscle that has been catabolised after you have finished training. If you are training in a varied style with emphasis on weights and some cardio then all muscle will be deemed worth keeping, simple as. Therefore your body will rebuild it, burning more energy and aiding fat loss after training, this fat loss is not massive, don't get too excited. The point is sensible cardio doesn't destroy your muscle and stop it ever coming back. My wife was in a gym watching Laurence Shahlaei working out for 20 minutes on a rowing machine, his trainer was having to foot the back of the rower to stop him going backward faster than he was doing, his pace and stamina were better than most of the gym bunnies looking at him disapprovingly, and seeing the 140kg of him in world's strongest man it is clear that this commitment to cardio hasn't stopped him being muscular.

Schedule wise. Try it out and see how it goes. This is totally personal. If you have time and have recovered for the next session it will be fine. Try different patterns until you find what is best for you.
My schedule is governed by availability of time, which sucks but my family is worth it.