Ready to cut, but don't know bf%

G

g8r80

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I have been bulking for about the last year. I am ready to start cutting, but I need some weight goals, but don't have a clue because I don't have a clue what my bf is.

When I use the calipers with 9 locations, I get 16%, which seems a pinch low to me. When I use calipers with 3 locations, I get 14, which seems low. When I use the impedance method, I get 25%! No pics of the legs, but they are, in my humble opinion, well defined from years of cycling.

I have already greatly reduced my fat content, increased meals to 6 / day, but will have specific weight loss questions down the road.
 
as long as you use the same method everytime it doesnt matter what your % is, if you're a few % out then you'll still have the same margin of error when you next check.

Weigh yourself and aim for no more than 2lb a week, any more is likely to be lean muscle tissue loss. Using % is a nice, professional sounding idea but by no means the only way to track results. What you see should be your greatest guidance.

And make sure you're taking in enough fats when cutting, i made that mistake when i started out, even sat fat is needed for testosterone levels to be kept up. Use fats away from your training, use carbs to fuel and refuel your workouts. Protein should be constant and steady.

Good luck!
 
The ultimate fat burner (or body cutter) is the appropriate deficit diet, and optimized and complimented with appropriate training/excercise routine on a regular basis.

A deficit diet, in itself, without any scheduled excercise program can also make one lose weight. What does this tell us? That the DIET is absolutely the Boss and everything encircles the diet, and one will lose tissue, if they are healthy and have no organ issues or other medical conditions that would or could hamper progress.


This is what you need to do:

This an approxomation science, but you can narrow it down very close, if your meticulous in your vision when looking at the data.

Tweak your desire and passion by educating yourself on the basic requirements of losing fat tissue. With your age, sex, hgt, and wgt, in mind, find your approximated base calorie needs (this is organ function, breathing, or bodily function needs).

Armed with this knowledge, next figure in your approximated activity calorie expenditure (training/exercising, etc), and add this on top of the approximated base calorie need. This will give you the approximated maintenance level (or like a approximated break-even point in the caloric equation)

Apply this knowledge by backing off the approximated MT Line (approximated Maintenance line), say for example, a -500c per day, for about 1 week. Before the week begins, weigh yourself in the AM when you FIRST get up (do not eat yet) (remember your clothing, preferably with just underwear and t-shirt or like clothes). Note the time, and the approximated wgt.

Each day spread your caloric content out throughout the day (keep the body fed, with calories in the 300 to 500c approximated calories each meal), or a like division which mirrors your end caloric deficit limit (meaning MT-500c).

This way you have your entire day and body encircled with nutrition (I assume you alread know to eat clean), which if your eating right, will give an approximated good energy (not optimal because your in deficit) to fuel your training and exercising schedule.

At the end of the week, on the same day, the same time, with the same like clothes, weigh yourself again. Note whether you lost or gained tissue (or weight I mean). To further assist you, I want to tell you that for every approximated caloric deficit of (-3500c), one could lose 1lb of fat tissue. (though some may not all be fat tissue, this information is for another question, and isnt presently suited here).

Now, in this example you were calculating a -500c per day deficit. There needs to be -3500c to lose approximated 1lbs of fat. Now lets do some basic math. -500cX7=-3500c. With all things considered equal, and you were meticulous and faithful on the diet, you should have been CLOSE to losing at least one pound of tissue in the week.

If this didnt happen, this means you need to make finer adjustments, and the MT line is not accurate, and you need to adjust this on your own........based upon the FEEDBACK your body is giving you, AND ask yourself how faithful you were on the diet, AND how faithful in training (whether you kept the training schedule (if you didnt, this would effect the caloric equation, no?!), AND how acurate you figured in your activities caloric wise.........but, you have the base information to begin makeing adjustments.

One can not spot reduce. Losing fat is like draining a pool. The shallow end seems to drain before the larger deeper end. One can't choose where to lose fat; it will be lost all over the body.

The Nutrients are an essential factor in the diet; however, the law of energy balance within the DIET, is the ulitmate KING while the Nutrients can play in some decisions made within the body.

Do yourself a favor, figure out your MT line, adjust off of this, eat well balanced spaced out meals (DONT EVER starve YOURSELF), AND listen to your body for the results. While you are trying to figure out your body, IT WILL PAY YOU BACK, I promise. You have to learn to MASTER yourself to become the master of weight loss for YOURSELF.

What was your weight routine and diet like during your bulk? And, how long was this? What was your calorie consumption like? Was your weight routine progressive in nature? Besides lowering body fat, do you have any other goals?
 
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Chillen said:
What was your weight routine and diet like during your bulk? And, how long was this? What was your calorie consumption like? Was your weight routine progressive in nature? Besides lowering body fat, do you have any other goals?
Click to expand...

Chillen,

For the last 6 months when most of the bulking occurred, I have worked weights and resistance machines 3 - 4 x / week. I eat 5 - 6 meals / day, try to lay low on saturated fats but occasionally dip into ice cream. During the bulking time, I also lost 12 lbs., hopefully the bulk of which was fat.

Yes, my weight routine was progressive in that I started somewhat slowly a year ago, maybe weights 2/week with cardio 2/ week progressing to my current weights 3 - 4 / week and cardio 4/ week, sometimes doing cardio and weights on the same day, but using different muscle sets (e.g., upper body weights and bicycling cardio.)

I have achieved enough bulk to be happy, but like being wealthy, a little bit more is always better, right? I am okay with all my performance benchmarks (bench press, pullups, and cycling) but I'd be lying if I said that a little more wouldn't make me happier.

So, to answer your question about future goals, after cutting I would like to tweak my bulking and gain maybe another 5# improving a little more. But, my number one goal is cutting.

But, the overall goal is to look good shirtless on the beach (at least as good as a 48yo can look) with sufficient musculature uncluttered by unnecessary fat.

I am gonna have to assimilate all that you wrote as it is very detailed. Much thanks.

I will post followup pictures in a couple of months of my progress.

Richard
 
I will be 46 on August 25th, so we share age in common. Dont let this age number play a role in negative mental arena. Just educate yourself on the "Bare facts" and "Truth" that happens as we age, accept them, and then deal with them----->effectively. What I mean by this is accepting some biological internal and external changes that naturally occur as one ages, and then take this knowledge and apply it to DIET AND TRAINING.

We cannot do anything about the natural aging process, BUT WE CAN do something with a circumference of understanding of what happens when we age, working WITH IT, not against it, and optimizing what this has to offer.

Some important biological changes that occur are: 1. The metabolism naturally slows as we age (but this can be effectively dealt with), 2. The Skin tends to be less elastic and doesnt bounce back--as quick (and this too can be effectivly deal with--if not too serious), 3. Testosterone levels tend to drop slowly as we age (and this too can be dealt with, but still will not be as good as one in their prime).

All three of these can be dealt with on a healthy individual through appropriate diet and training. Its important to understand the meaning of compound exercises and their various uses. And, in my opinion, one needs to understand the "Power" of the Squat and Dead lift. Its not the exercise, necessarily, that I am referring to, its---the biological response--that tend to follow these types of exercises on the average AND healthy person.

While the type of exercises may be important for one in their prime, I think in our age bracket (and healthy), these can be major players when implemented correctly with Diet and Recuperation (rest). Why do I say this? Its primarly due to certain chemical releases (i.e. Testosterone, and other important stimulations) that these tend to stimulate. And, at our age we want to bring out the most that we can---though it will be limited with our age--to an extent.

Next, I want to touch on recuperation (Rest), applying simplicity. While this period may have variables like the past history of training (how many years training and dieting, etc, and knowledge of their own bodies, etc), I think its fairly safe to say that it is possible we need more recuperation time as we age and are over 45 (this isnt always true, but true in general).

For example, through MUCH trial and error, I have learned that my muscles were more than willing to ROCK ON in 3 days of rest, but my tendons were not a willing participant. Muscles and Tendons work as a unit, and its important they are both ready to Rock On. So I allow 3 days for Muscle recovery and an additional 2 for tendon recovery, and I dont have ANY aches and pains that tend to come up when training--especially over 40.

My point here is to allow "appropriate rest" at least 48 hours before doing the same muscle again. If gains are not forthcoming, this IS one of many areas to start analyzing and one to make an adjustment if necessary. Rememeber growth occurs outside the gym while the gym is the stimulation. So ALLOW enough time.
 
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Chill,

Right on about the tendons. I have been battling tennis elbow in my right elbow twice - 3 years ago and now - and in my left elbow 3 years ago - all after age 40. Unfortunately, the only guaranteed treatment is resting it for 3 months, but that is nearly impossible to do. So, I limit activities that stress them, e.g., no "unsupported" (i.e., the elbow does not get any support) bicep curls, but rather other activities in which the elbow is stationary.

But, I do have questions about the squats and deadlift. Why would these muscles elicit a different testosterone response than other exercises?

And, I am a little confused about the rest time you recommend for muscles and tendons? Do you reast 5 days (3 for the muscles and 2 for the tendons) between working the same muscle groups? It would be hard for me to have that much patience and wait that long.

But, no question about the latter 40 crowd having our inherent challenges. And, I agree the fun is in rising to these challenges.

Rep +1

Richard
 
g8r80 said:
Chill,

Right on about the tendons. I have been battling tennis elbow in my right elbow twice - 3 years ago and now - and in my left elbow 3 years ago - all after age 40. Unfortunately, the only guaranteed treatment is resting it for 3 months, but that is nearly impossible to do. So, I limit activities that stress them, e.g., no "unsupported" (i.e., the elbow does not get any support) bicep curls, but rather other activities in which the elbow is stationary.

But, I do have questions about the squats and deadlift. Why would these muscles elicit a different testosterone response than other exercises?

And, I am a little confused about the rest time you recommend for muscles and tendons? Do you reast 5 days (3 for the muscles and 2 for the tendons) between working the same muscle groups? It would be hard for me to have that much patience and wait that long.

But, no question about the latter 40 crowd having our inherent challenges. And, I agree the fun is in rising to these challenges.

Rep +1

Richard
Click to expand...

Im not recommending 5 days rest, this was an example with what I do. What you can start of with is to allow 48 (and possibly 72 hours) between the SAME muscle and muscles being trained again. Then watch, look, and listen for your bodily response. If you feel good---AND (shown by progression in the weight room, and some physical factors) and with adequate diet (and proper stumulous in the weight room)---then the rest period you had given is then proper. See what I am saying?


Start off with 48hours or thereabouts between parts, and see how this goes. I am harping on this, because THIS is where GROWTH occurs--IF stimulous, AND diet is proper (as surplus).

Understand, that if your going to CUT, so to speak, which means basically that your in a deficit diet---most of the time, Growth in a deficit environment is difficult if not impossible--because there are no surplus calories nor surplus nutrition to aide in cell division and other biological factors that assist in growth. With this in mind, when trying to lose fat weight (in its simplicity), the overall weight training provided in a fat loss program will AIDE (but not totally eliminate muscle loss). This is ONE reason among many that most recommend training when deficit dieting.

Now there some techniques that one can use to manipulate calories in a 24 hour cycle to bring about a surplus on some days or at specific times when needed, but this is an entirely different approach, and we can touch on this later if you wish.

What I am saying is to Develop an overall training program (entire body), create a SMALL deficit in calories (this will bring tissue loss), and this will set the foundation for your goal (s).

The Squat utilizes the biggest muscle of the body (the LEGS). If this behemoth of an exercise is done properly---it CAN KICK ONES ASS! This is the primary reason (keeping it simple) it invokes the responses it does. Same with the dead lift. If you dont have any medical conditions, add these in your program---you will not be disappointed. In truth, I hate the squat, but the reality is that this exercise TAXES the system a great deal, and is one of the reasons one can get a good return on investment. It indirectly works the torso and ab area (support and stabilizer), and will assist in strengthening this area as well. It is flat a good exercise. If I had no time or time was limited (for what ever reason), I would perform the Squat above all other exercises.

Any more questions---Freel Free to ask...........THis is what we are here for.

Best wishes


Chillen
 
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OH!.......I have one more thing to say:


ROCK ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ill post some more 2morrow.......ROCK ON De bad self!
 
Chillen,

My personal trainer always had me go 2 days rest on each muscle group and that is what I have continued, with the exceptions of abs and cardio, which I am told can go daily, and I may cycle on less than 2 days rest - all with no ill effects.

I do use the squats, but not deadlift. Yeah, squats do kick my butt! There is no other exercise that leaves me gasping for air after a set of ten like squats. But, they also benefit my cycling and burn calories so I picked them up and dropped leg presses.

My understanding of muscles while exercising is that muscles will "steal" nutrition if they need it, even in calorie deficit. So, if I am running a calorie deficit and still working the muscles, the muscles will still demand protein, which I am supplementing in my diet, and continue to grow, albeit at a slower rate. When I started a year ago, I bulked up a fair amount while concurrently losing 15#, presumably mostly or all from fat.

I would like to continue bulking slightly while I am cutting.

Thanks again,

Richard
 
cue the deluge of 'you can lose fan and build muscle at the same time' posts....

however it is true, you cannot add muscle whilst cutting as you're in negative kcalories. i have found that muscles will appear a little bigger as the fat is romoved, as definition increasies there is a trick of the eye that makes you look bigger.
 
g8r80 said:
Chillen,

My personal trainer always had me go 2 days rest on each muscle group and that is what I have continued, with the exceptions of abs and cardio, which I am told can go daily, and I may cycle on less than 2 days rest - all with no ill effects.

I do use the squats, but not deadlift. Yeah, squats do kick my butt! There is no other exercise that leaves me gasping for air after a set of ten like squats. But, they also benefit my cycling and burn calories so I picked them up and dropped leg presses.

My understanding of muscles while exercising is that muscles will "steal" nutrition if they need it, even in calorie deficit. So, if I am running a calorie deficit and still working the muscles, the muscles will still demand protein, which I am supplementing in my diet, and continue to grow, albeit at a slower rate. When I started a year ago, I bulked up a fair amount while concurrently losing 15#, presumably mostly or all from fat.

I would like to continue bulking slightly while I am cutting.

Thanks again,

Richard
Click to expand...


Richard:

I want to keep this simple for you to help as much as I can. With this said, I want to tell you that its virtually and nearly impossible to gain muscle and lose fat (or cut) at the same time. The is a basic reason for this, and its the laws of energy balance, and these two are apposing forces and are on the opposite sides of the law of energy balance equation.

In order to gain tissue you MUST have a calore surplus above the your Maintenance level. In order to lose tissue (fat tissue) one HAS to be in a deficit of some sort below your Maintenance level. Do you see the complication here? The complication is that they are OPPOSITES. The DIET is the MOST responsible for definition and bringing fat percent down to a desired level. There are calorie manipulations one can do to bring about a surplus at times, and then revert back to a deficit that CAN cause growth if carefully done, but this is for another discussion.

When in a calorie deficit, the body will look for energy (carbs, and even convert protein for energy---if needed and necessary--research this). When it finds none (keeping this simple), it WILL look to muscle tissue as a source of fuel (muscles are nutrient dense, and ideal for the body to use in this environment), AND it will look to the fat stores for fuel. To combat this complication of the body looking to muscle tissue, weight training the body sends singles to the body----"saying HEY! we need these muscles", and provides a stimulant to keep what you have, but it will only minimize it.

Therefore, what I am saying is that you need to make a decision to bulk or cut to keep this simple. If its leaness you desire, then arrange a careful diet deficit under your Maintenance Line, and continue your progressive weight training schedule, and of course eat clean (try about 5 to 6 meals spaced out during the day)

On the Abs. I dont recommend doing them everyday. I suggest treating them like any other muscle. Do these every other day (or 48 hours), or 3 to 4 times a week---on a progressive scale.

I dont recommend doing cardio everyday. However, you may want to try 3 to 4 times a week, to give FULL DAYS of rest,,,,,where NO training is done.....let the central nervous system rest and recuperate for you.
 
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Not much cutting progress to date. But, what you don't see are the cardio advances I've made, increased bench press, increased chin ups. I am not fully committed to cutting and prefer bulking.

That said, I do want to lower my body fat. Here are current pics.

Current:

July:

Current:

July:
 
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A couple of frontal pics today to compare with July...

Today

July

Today

July

I think I see that:

1. My neck is narrower (or my head is even bigger - and my noggin is a hefty size 7 3/4 to begin with)

2. My deltoids are bigger (or my traps have shrunk)

3. I have a little less jelly belly

4. My pecs are better defined.
 
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Here is a pic of me today:


Regardless of the visible improvements in my body over the last year, which I am pleased with (unfortunately, I have no shirtless photos during my unfit days to compare), I like how I feel inside. Like my idol and training bud, FlyinFree, I am not only interested in looking good, although that is important to me, but how I perform against myself and others. I used this year to improve myself and get to the point where, along with encouragement from this forum and especially FlyinFree and Chillen, I feel I can do, eventually, whatever I want to do physically. I am going mountain biking with Chris, the local Ace Hardware owner's son on Monday. But he warned me, "Now take it easy on me out there, you'll ride circles around me, you're in great shape!" This is from a 24 yo male who is in great shape himself.

And, as FlyinFree posted, The Horrible Hundred bike race is on 11/18/07. If you love sweating and pain as much as you love competition and comraderie, join FlyinFree and me. We are doing the 102 mile length, but there are shorter 37 and 72 mile lengths.
 
Dude! There is an obvious difference in those pics.

Keep your Spirit ALIVE and you will continue to THRIVE! :)


Keep pushing the limits......and be all you were meant to be, baby!





Chillen
 
Not much to report, but here is a 2-month, end of the year update:


Goals for the next two months are to continue training for my March 9, 2008 Sprint Triathlon

train for the Bike Across Florida, April 20



and continuing training for the Tri-Shark Sprint Triathlon in June,

and continue work on biceps, triceps, and traps. Short term goal of 225 on bench press.
 
I think you have made excellent progress. You got good size arms, a way better chest then before, your mid section is way more defined too. The place with the most improvements I thought was either your chest or back. Your abs weren't far behind the chase either though. I think you said you were a cyclist of course your legs are gonna be muscular and defined too.

Good Job and keep up the hard work
 
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