question about "toning"

So I've read that the term "toning" is misused.... it's a "myth" -- I understand, sort of.

"Toned" to me, means that you can see some muscle definition and less flab, but you're not really trying to make your muscles larger -- just tighter, firmer I guess.

Let me summarize my background info: I have an ectomorph frame with the metabolism of a mesomorph. I can usually gain or lose fat without any difficulty. (It takes effort to lose just like anyone else, but it's pretty easy to gain, unlike the classic ectomorph type.) In case you missed it, I want to lose my "skinny fat" appearance, and have a more "toned" appearance... I don't know how else to describe it. No flab, a little softness is okay, but I want shapely legs and stronger, firmer muscles.

So now I'm confused. People tell me lots of reps, lighter weights are for "toning," which is what I thought I wanted... and that heavier weights with less reps are for building. Which method do I need to reach my goal? How is one method going to make a difference in my appearance compared to the other method? Keep in mind that I have very little muscle strength/tone now.
 
Lots of reps and lighter weight will not help "tone" anything.


"Toned" to me, means that you can see some muscle definition and less flab, but you're not really trying to make your muscles larger -- just tighter, firmer I guess.
You want a tighter, firmer muscle? Go flex in a mirror or exert force against an object.

You can increase a muscle size and you can decrease it. There is no other way about it. Your muscles "shape", if one can call it it that, is basically decided by your own anthropometry.

The only way a muscle becomes more "defined" is through increasing its size while/or decreasing body fat.


BTW - Thanks for your last email. It was very informative. :)
 
You're welcome!

And thanks for the reply. I don't understand what the difference is between the 2 methods then. They MUST produce different results, or else so many people wouldn't recommend one or the other. If they produce the same end result, will it make any difference which method I choose? Lighter weights + more reps seems easier to me, I'm less sore, and I feel that I probably burn more calories that way, hence shedding more fat. I'm just trying to figure out what *I* personally need to achieve the goal I want to achieve. If heavier weights will make a difference, maybe I'll give that a whirl.

Btw, I'm not beginning the weightlifting just yet. I'm working on stretching and flexibility to hopefully prevent some injuries before I jump right in. Just trying to get all my ducks in a row, so I can have a plan!
 
Another thing, I saw my Ortho doctor today, and he said my muscle TONE is fine, I just lack muscle CONTROL. I don't think he meant neurologically, I mean... if I want to move a muscle, I can do that without difficulty. But all the slipping, grinding, clicking, and pain is due to the ligaments being very loose, not a problem with the muscles or joints themselves. Like when I feel that my hip has slipped out of joint, it's really just the ligaments giving out, but my joint is still intact. (He said my hips look so great on Xray that I'll never need a hip replacement in my lifetime!)

I guess due to the instability of my ligaments, my muscles have to be "retrained" to fire correctly. (I'm not sure how to do that yet.) So I have to see 2 more doctors... one to rule out any neuromuscular disease, and one to rule out connective tissue disease. (He was the second doctor to suggest Marfan syndrome, and I hope to God that isn't it. I don't wanna die at a young age!!) In the meantime, I'm doing my stretching exercises because I figured that can't hurt.

Maybe for that reason, lighter weight would be better because I don't want to take the chance of my ligaments tearing? This is so hard because no one else on this forum has the type of problems I have. Maybe I should find a connective tissue disease forum! (I kid.) ;)
 
You're welcome!

And thanks for the reply. I don't understand what the difference is between the 2 methods then. They MUST produce different results, or else so many people wouldn't recommend one or the other. If they produce the same end result, will it make any difference which method I choose? Lighter weights + more reps seems easier to me, I'm less sore, and I feel that I probably burn more calories that way, hence shedding more fat. I'm just trying to figure out what *I* personally need to achieve the goal I want to achieve. If heavier weights will make a difference, maybe I'll give that a whirl.

Btw, I'm not beginning the weightlifting just yet. I'm working on stretching and flexibility to hopefully prevent some injuries before I jump right in. Just trying to get all my ducks in a row, so I can have a plan!

There is a difference between the two methods. The benefits are different. The physiological response is different. The calorie expenditure is different.
Among a number of other things that are different.

As you likely know, there are three major different classes of muscle: smooth, cardiac, and skeletal. Now another three types pop up under the classification of skeletal: Those being Type 1, Type 2a, and Type 2b.

Each of these three types have their own characteristics such as: Glycolytic capacity, Force production, and Capillary density - among many other differences...

Depending on the weight, number of reps, and other factors, the type of muscle fiber that contributes most to the lift will change. For example, in heavy 3-4rep moves, the largest contributing muscle fiber type will be type 2b, then type2a, then type1.

In high rep/ low weight lifting, the reverse would be true.

The size of type 1mf are considerably smaller than that of type 2b/a to begin with. This is one of the primary reasons why there is little hypertrophic gain from high rep/low weight training.

What you are gaining from this type of training is almost the same as in aerobic training. You are gaining endurance to go further. Greater number of capillaries, greater mitochondria numbers, among other significant adaptations, are things one can expect to gain...

In heavy lifting, lower reps...You are gaining increased bone density, connective tissue strength, hypertrophy, and increased strength. The hypertrophic gain(bigger muscles) comes primarily from the increased synthesis of myofilaments in type2Bmf. Of course, it is all actually more complicated than this. But, to keep this short and simple as possible I'm omitting some important details.

Now, in terms of calorie expenditure. In THEORY, it makes sense that high rep training would be more beneficial - their main energy source is triglycerides.

However, research shows (that I have seen) that more moderate rep ranges (6-8) expends the most amount of calories when doing large compound movements.

Now, back to toning....It can not be done. Its a myth that won't die. Any anatomy professor would tell you this, if you asked. High rep training has its benefits, but toning is NOT one of them.

Its on the same level as spot reducing, in terms of myths...





Another thing, I saw my Ortho doctor today, and he said my muscle TONE is fine, I just lack muscle CONTROL. I don't think he meant neurologically, I mean... if I want to move a muscle, I can do that without difficulty. But all the slipping, grinding, clicking, and pain is due to the ligaments being very loose, not a problem with the muscles or joints themselves. Like when I feel that my hip has slipped out of joint, it's really just the ligaments giving out, but my joint is still intact. (He said my hips look so great on Xray that I'll never need a hip replacement in my lifetime!)

I guess due to the instability of my ligaments, my muscles have to be "retrained" to fire correctly. (I'm not sure how to do that yet.) So I have to see 2 more doctors... one to rule out any neuromuscular disease, and one to rule out connective tissue disease. (He was the second doctor to suggest Marfan syndrome, and I hope to God that isn't it. I don't wanna die at a young age!!) In the meantime, I'm doing my stretching exercises because I figured that can't hurt.

Maybe for that reason, lighter weight would be better because I don't want to take the chance of my ligaments tearing? This is so hard because no one else on this forum has the type of problems I have. Maybe I should find a connective tissue disease forum! (I kid.)

Yes, high rep training can be beneficial to those who have injured tendons or other types connective tissue dysfunction.
.
Secondly, "retrained to 'fire' correctly" would mean he suspects you have poor neuromuscular efficiency, or atleast this is what that would imply.

This can be caused by a number of reasons. It can be remedied(in some cases) completely or help somewhat through regular muscular contraction under tension, as is the case with weight lifting.

When a doctor says your muscle "tone" looks fine. He is NOT talking about the definition of your muscle. He is speaking more about its elastic nature. How it is able to handle tension.
Any other use of the word, in this case, would be a misnomer. In which case this would not surprise me. I have seen doctors give advise to obese people that you can spot reduce the stomach through crunches...

I do as well hope you do not have Marfen sydrome.

Now, I would suggest you be very careful with your stretching. over-stretching CAn cause connective tissue damage. Do NOT over do it.

Anyway, I wrote this all out really quickly as I'm doing a number of things at the moment. Hope it is at least somewhat readable. ;) If i didn't explain something good enough, or you have another question, please feel free to ask.
 
I think some of my muscle groups (like calves) would benefit from the heavier weights right off the bat, and I DO use heavier weights on my back because it feels good. (I'm talking about back extensions with nautilus weights.) But I think for my arms, I'll do lighter weights and work my way up as I feel stronger.

About my doctor, yes I completely understood what he meant by muscle tone. He was referring to the tonus of my muscles... I was not comparing that terminology with how people misuse the term "toning" in relation to fitness. And just to be clear, I never disputed the fact that "toning" is a myth. I understand, I was explaining what that concept meant to ME when I heard the term being thrown around. I just wondered what the difference was in end results when using different methods in weight training.

And just to clarify, he didn't tell me I had to retrain my muscles, that's just what I assume needs to take place since he said I lack control. I don't believe I have any problems with the nerve impulses, I think my muscles just do not have smooth, well-controlled movements because my ligaments are crap. (How's that for a good medical term?) :p

Right now stretching and working on my posture is not going so well. It's just sending nerve pain down my arms and legs. My back hurts worse than ever before. Obviously my body has gotten quite used to being a wreck, and it doesn't like me forcing it to do what it's supposed to. I'm not sure if I should keep going and hope that it'll get better in time... or maybe I should just stop before I pinch a nerve or herniate a disc.

Sigh.... nothing can ever be easy, can it.
 
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