Pyramiding - up or down?

T

the_guvernator

0
I believe that I've been told the wrong way to "pyramid" a workout. I thought it went like this:
1. Use really heavy weights.
2. Do as many reps as you can until you die.
3. Lower the weight just a bit.
4. Go to step 2 and repeat.

But recently I've been seeing posts about pyramiding that go in the opposite direction.
1. Use light-ish weight
2. Do alot of reps.
3. INCREASE the weight.
4. Do less reps than the last set.
5. Go to step 3 and repeat.

To me, they both seem beneficial in their own ways. Any input people? :confused:
 
The second method is the most common method for pyramiding your weight. You go up in weight and reduce your reps. Not necessarily the best method, but it is very common in gyms. Here is a sample of a pyramid routine I wrote about 10 years ago when I used to use them... In this routine I only pyramid the primary exercise for each body part:


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

MONDAY & THURSDAY
Quads
squats, leg press, or hack squats 3 x 10, 8, 4-6
sissy squats, or lunges 1 x 8-12
leg extensions 1 x 8-12

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ham strings
stiff-legged dead lifts 2 x 8-12
leg curls 1 x 8-12

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Calves
donkey calf raise 2 x 12-20
standing calf raise 1 x 12-20

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Chest
bench press, or dumbbell press 3 x 8, 6, 3-4
decline cable flyes 1 x 8-12
incline bench press, or incline dumbbell press 3 x 8, 6, 3-4
incline flyes 1 x 8-12

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Triceps
close grip bench press, or dips 3 x 8, 6, 3-4
overhead tricep extensions 1 x 8-12
cable tricep extensions, or rope ticeps extensions 1 x 8-12

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

TUESDAY & FRIDAY
Midback
front lat pull 3 x 8, 6, 3-4
one arm dumbbell rows, or low pulley rows 1 x 8-12

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lats
front pulldowns or pull-ups 3 x 8, 6, 3-4
pullovers 1 x 8-12
stiff-arm pulldowns 1 x 8-12

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Delts
shoulder press 3 x 8, 6, 3-4
incline one arm lateral raises or lateral raises 1 x 8-12
upright row 1 x 8-12

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Biceps
barbell curls or dumbbell curls 3 x 8, 6, 3-4
incline dumbbell curls 1 x 8-12
concentration curls 1 x 8-12

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
i'd rather start out low and work my way up then to start heavy right off the bat

the first method could be considered a strip set
 
i have tried both, and prefer the reverse pyramid (start heavy then decrease weight)

why? Well your aim in the gym is to fatigue the muscles as much as possible as quickly as possible, so it makes sense to put all f your energy when you are fresh (the first set) into the heaviest possible weight you can do X reps for. The on the next set you will want to do the same weight again, but probably wont be able to, so you reduce it a bit.

BTW, if using this method it is essential to warm up, hitting your heaviest weight first thing with no warm up is bad news. My warm up is joint rotations, 6 minutes cardio(e.g. rowing), then a light warm up set of the exercise to be performed.
 
cheers for all the input! i'll try reversing my current technique and see what happens.

xander - that was exactly my thinking. i'll try anything for a little change-up in my routine. keeps the mind sharp.
 
The first one you mentioned is typically called a drop set, and used to really take your muscle to fatigue/failure.
 
What are the benefits of one over the other? That is, is one method better for building bulk? Building stamina? Building strength? Or is one just a personal preference over the other?
 
Because drop sets will take you to "maximum" muscle failure/fatigue, they are more beneficial for hypertrophy.

Pyramids (like sets of 8,6,4,6,8 reps, for example) are more of a strength-building method. However, depending on the amount of reps/rest you use, you could modifiy them to target muscle hypertrophy or even power. I typically use them for strength (in sets like above).
 
jpfitness said:
Here is a sample of a pyramid routine I wrote about 10 years ago when I used to use them...
Click to expand...

JP...that begs the question: What do you use now instead of pyramids? I've always kind of taken it for granted that whether you pyramid up or pyramid down, you always pyramid?
 
Nice catch pmoe...

I do not pyramid at all these days, with myself or my clients. I still have some of my old routines on line from back in the old days, but I have learned a lot about strength/size development since then, and have found much more efficient and effective ways to get there.
 
the other day I did a warmup set of 135 pnds for 12 reps on the bench and then my next set I went right to 225 for 5 reps...Ive never done that many reps of 225 before when I was doing 135 then 185 then 205 then 225....so i guess i like to go heavy first.

p.s. 225 may not seem like much, but its a big step up from my max being 185 2 months ago
 
just read the DB Hammer (sound like a rap artist!) article.

I have to say that from what I understand of it, it is all about using science and maths to calculate which variables you should alter (time, reps, sets, weight etc) in order to create a workout which is personalised for you.

The trouble is I found the article hard reading, and I wouldnt know where to start to build my own program. I am keen to test this out but it seems complex - maybe you could shed some light on it jp by giving a practicle example of how you would use this in your own workout.

thanks
 
Hm, in and extreme nutshell, here it goes:

Go full body. Squats and/or lunges for your primary leg work. Find your weight for your 6RM, then reduce the weight to 5-10% less than your 6RM. Do as many sets of 6 reps as it takes till your form drops (positive failure of your primary movers). May be 2 sets, may be 20. This way you get just exactly what you need without over or under training.

Absolutely apply it to your full body. Pick out about 4-5 exercises. Do one, then move to the next, but not rushing to "keep up your HR" or anything. (This isn't really a circuit). Just do them in sequence, dropping them out of the "circuit" as you hit your drop-offs instead of shooting for a concrete number of sets. You can't really overtrain using this method, which strength coach Bill Hartman refers to as "autoregulation".

Have I confused you more or does that make sense?
 
i am very confused.

by the way i read the article, it seemed to say that you need to constantly calculate your reps sets weights etc every workout (i.e. it changes all the time). Something to do with using the drop off % to calculate but to be honest it really confused me!!!

Another question - why do you advocate the full body workout, wouldnt auto regulation work just the same with a split?

Also, is the example you mentioned ideal for hypertrophy? That is my goal, not speed or strength or power, not yet anyway, just mass gain.

Thanks
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top