I am following the Max OT training as close as I can(its difficult). I feel like I am just a bit stronger but it seems like I am gettin smaller.If I flex I just dont seem as big as I was when I started the routine.Is there a better workout that promotes the muscles to get bigger? I want to look cut and lean. I'm really not that intrested in being huge and bulky but more trim and cut.Is the Max Ot f0or me or is there somehting better?
Max OT Routine Aint Cuttin It.
- Thread starter hypnotic
- Start date
Why don't you give Hypertrophy Specific Training a spin? Do a google search on HST or Hypertrophy Specific Training and I'm sure you'll find what you are looking for. The basic premise is that you are hitting your muscles with more frequency, therefore you're body will be forced to adapt (GROW) due to the cumulative effects of the training. Yes, it is a three day a week, full body program, but it is grounded in science and is highly effective!
Just a thought,
Andrew
Just a thought,
Andrew
Would it help if I did something like this. How does this plan work for what im looking for.I do 3 warm up sets before each muscle group.Keep that in mind.
Back, biceps, Forearms
pull down wide grip 2x6 (setsxreps)
pull down vgrip 2x6
seated rows vgrip 2x6
seated rows wide grip 2x6
bent over rows reg 2x6
bent over rows (flip wrist) 2x6
alt. dumbbell curls 2x6
crooked bar curls 2x8
str. bar cruls 2x6
barbell forearms flexors
dumbbell forearm flexors
Triceps Shoulder Chest
bench press 3x6
incline dumbbell press 2x6
decline bench 1x6
dumbbell bench press 2x6
weighted dip 1x6
dumbbell side lats 3x6
military presses 2x6
barbell shrugs 2x6
skullcrushers 2x6
triceps pushdown 2x6 str bar
triceps pull down 2x6 with rope
Legs Abs Calves
squats 3x6
45 degree leg press 2x6
deadlift 2x6
standing calf raise 2x6
seated calf raise 2x6
cable crunches 2x6
weighted declinje situps 2x6
I am doing this with weight I can do no less than 4 and no higher than 6.I ually hit 6 everytime.Is there anything you would change or substitute?Ill do this schedule and the day after leg day will be my only off day a week.How is it fellas.
Back, biceps, Forearms
pull down wide grip 2x6 (setsxreps)
pull down vgrip 2x6
seated rows vgrip 2x6
seated rows wide grip 2x6
bent over rows reg 2x6
bent over rows (flip wrist) 2x6
alt. dumbbell curls 2x6
crooked bar curls 2x8
str. bar cruls 2x6
barbell forearms flexors
dumbbell forearm flexors
Triceps Shoulder Chest
bench press 3x6
incline dumbbell press 2x6
decline bench 1x6
dumbbell bench press 2x6
weighted dip 1x6
dumbbell side lats 3x6
military presses 2x6
barbell shrugs 2x6
skullcrushers 2x6
triceps pushdown 2x6 str bar
triceps pull down 2x6 with rope
Legs Abs Calves
squats 3x6
45 degree leg press 2x6
deadlift 2x6
standing calf raise 2x6
seated calf raise 2x6
cable crunches 2x6
weighted declinje situps 2x6
I am doing this with weight I can do no less than 4 and no higher than 6.I ually hit 6 everytime.Is there anything you would change or substitute?Ill do this schedule and the day after leg day will be my only off day a week.How is it fellas.
hypnotic-
You already have the answer staring you in the face, and the answer is no, its not good. This is what you posted first...
I am following the Max OT training as close as I can(its difficult). I feel like I am just a bit stronger but it seems like I am gettin smaller.If I flex I just dont seem as big as I was when I started the routine.Is there a better workout that promotes the muscles to get bigger? I want to look cut and lean. I'm really not that intrested in being huge and bulky but more trim and cut.Is the Max Ot f0or me or is there somehting better?
This is a conflicting goal. You said at first you felt smaller, yet you turn around and say that you want to be cut and lean. To me, cut and lean IS small!
Don't take this as a personal attack, because it isn't, I'm only pointing out facts. Its a contradiction. Pick one of your goals and aim for it. Its that simple. If you want to gain some size, then use a size program, if you want to be trim and lean, I do feel that Max-OT will help you get that look, provided you don't eat like a bird, or eat everything not nailed down. Eat MAINTENANCE kcals.
As far as the program you posted, again, its not that good if size is your goal or if you want to get trim. It looks like a typical Max-OT program!
Breakout of the habit of using body part splits, because it is inferior compared to full body and/or movement based splits, or lift based splits.
You would be best served using a three day a week split breaking the body into movement patterns.
They are
Horizontal Push (i.e. Bench)
Horizontal Pull (i.e. Row)
Vertical Push (i.e. Shoulder Press)
Vertical Pull (i.e. Pull Up/Lat Pulldown)
Hips Dominant (i.e. Deadlifts, SLDL, GM)
Quad Dominant (i.e. Squat, Lunge)
Elbow Flexion (i.e. Curl)
Elbow Extension (i.e. Tricep Pushdowns, Lying Extensions)
Samples for 3-day splits could be...
Day 1-
Quads Dominant
Horizontal Pull
Vertical Pull
Elbow Flexion
Day 2-
Hips Dominant
Vertical Push
Upper Back (i.e. Traps
Elbow Extension
Day 3-
Lower Legs (i.e. Calves)
Horizontal Push
Elbow Flexion
or
Day 1-
Hips
Vertical Push
Vertical Pull
Elbow Extension
Day 2-
Quads
Horizontal Push
Horizontal Pull
Elbow Flexion
Day 3-
Hips
Vertical Push
Vertical Pull
Elbow Extension
Next week, start with day 2 workout
If you understand the concept you can easily create your own splits based on your needs, attempt to keep volume the same though.
If you want to gain size use (and I HATE to give these recommendations) a classic hypertrophy (size) range, i.e. 8-12 Reps.
If you want some size, and some strength use 6-8 Reps
For pure strength use 1-5 Reps
Just remember everything works, provided you change it up after your body has adapted, and clearly yours has to Max-OT, and its time for a change.
-Andrew
You already have the answer staring you in the face, and the answer is no, its not good. This is what you posted first...
I am following the Max OT training as close as I can(its difficult). I feel like I am just a bit stronger but it seems like I am gettin smaller.If I flex I just dont seem as big as I was when I started the routine.Is there a better workout that promotes the muscles to get bigger? I want to look cut and lean. I'm really not that intrested in being huge and bulky but more trim and cut.Is the Max Ot f0or me or is there somehting better?
This is a conflicting goal. You said at first you felt smaller, yet you turn around and say that you want to be cut and lean. To me, cut and lean IS small!
Don't take this as a personal attack, because it isn't, I'm only pointing out facts. Its a contradiction. Pick one of your goals and aim for it. Its that simple. If you want to gain some size, then use a size program, if you want to be trim and lean, I do feel that Max-OT will help you get that look, provided you don't eat like a bird, or eat everything not nailed down. Eat MAINTENANCE kcals.
As far as the program you posted, again, its not that good if size is your goal or if you want to get trim. It looks like a typical Max-OT program!
Breakout of the habit of using body part splits, because it is inferior compared to full body and/or movement based splits, or lift based splits.
You would be best served using a three day a week split breaking the body into movement patterns.
They are
Horizontal Push (i.e. Bench)
Horizontal Pull (i.e. Row)
Vertical Push (i.e. Shoulder Press)
Vertical Pull (i.e. Pull Up/Lat Pulldown)
Hips Dominant (i.e. Deadlifts, SLDL, GM)
Quad Dominant (i.e. Squat, Lunge)
Elbow Flexion (i.e. Curl)
Elbow Extension (i.e. Tricep Pushdowns, Lying Extensions)
Samples for 3-day splits could be...
Day 1-
Quads Dominant
Horizontal Pull
Vertical Pull
Elbow Flexion
Day 2-
Hips Dominant
Vertical Push
Upper Back (i.e. Traps
Elbow Extension
Day 3-
Lower Legs (i.e. Calves)
Horizontal Push
Elbow Flexion
or
Day 1-
Hips
Vertical Push
Vertical Pull
Elbow Extension
Day 2-
Quads
Horizontal Push
Horizontal Pull
Elbow Flexion
Day 3-
Hips
Vertical Push
Vertical Pull
Elbow Extension
Next week, start with day 2 workout
If you understand the concept you can easily create your own splits based on your needs, attempt to keep volume the same though.
If you want to gain size use (and I HATE to give these recommendations) a classic hypertrophy (size) range, i.e. 8-12 Reps.
If you want some size, and some strength use 6-8 Reps
For pure strength use 1-5 Reps
Just remember everything works, provided you change it up after your body has adapted, and clearly yours has to Max-OT, and its time for a change.
-Andrew
hypnotic, i must of missed this post. By freqency i mean you need to hit the bodyparts more then once a week.
HST is a fullbody program but it has alot of excercises.
You could also take a look at a Chad Waterbury routine.
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=459341
This ^ is a good start to increase frequency training. Which i myself do, i'll be following waterburys routines for at least another 4 or 5 months before i look into some new stuff, the stuff is working great for me.
HST is a fullbody program but it has alot of excercises.
You could also take a look at a Chad Waterbury routine.
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=459341
This ^ is a good start to increase frequency training. Which i myself do, i'll be following waterburys routines for at least another 4 or 5 months before i look into some new stuff, the stuff is working great for me.
NewF beat me to the punch! 
Really, I try to keep TOTAL workset volume between 12-20, rarely exeeding those numbers.
So with that in mind, if you pick...
Four Movements- 3-6 Sets per Exercise
Three Movements- 4-7 Sets per Exercise
Two Movements- 6-10 Sets per Exercise
One Movement- 12-20 Sets per Exercise
-Volume and Intensity are inversely related, if one goes up, the other goes down.
-Also keep in mind, with the above, that set/rep ranges are inversely related.
-The more reps, the lower the sets, the less reps the more sets can be used.
I rarely go above splitting sessions into two movements.
So take that for what its worth!
-Andrew
Really, I try to keep TOTAL workset volume between 12-20, rarely exeeding those numbers.
So with that in mind, if you pick...
Four Movements- 3-6 Sets per Exercise
Three Movements- 4-7 Sets per Exercise
Two Movements- 6-10 Sets per Exercise
One Movement- 12-20 Sets per Exercise
-Volume and Intensity are inversely related, if one goes up, the other goes down.
-Also keep in mind, with the above, that set/rep ranges are inversely related.
-The more reps, the lower the sets, the less reps the more sets can be used.
I rarely go above splitting sessions into two movements.
So take that for what its worth!
-Andrew
hypnotic said:
Triceps and Biceps are secondary movers in large multi-joint compound exercises, therefore they get worked despite no DIRECT work.
Chin Ups and Dips put more mass on a beginner/intermediate trainee than biceps curls and triceps pushdowns. Not saying you can't do them, but starting off, the secondary movers will grow, despite indirect work under the condition that the prime movers are hit hard.
Just some food for thought,
-Andrew