losing fat, starting over, need opinions

A

awesomeame

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OK I'm 6'1" 195lbs 18% BF. Been through a lot during the past couple yrs, had surgery, moved to a different city etc. etc. Needless to say I've fallen off the wagon, although the surgery wasn't exactly in my control. Now I'm in my new place, and all setup with a gym downstairs.

Basically I need to start from scratch. I want to lose BF, get down to say 12% or so, and have a muscular body overall. My diet is decent, good and clean ~1900cals/day, very protein heavy, minimal veggies/fruits. Note my diet must remain protein heavy because of my health, so no need to suggest I eat carbs, 'cause I can't :)

I need help in the cardio/weight training area-I don't know what to do there. I know I can't be gaining muscle and losing fat at the same time, but obviously I can't be a couch potato either, SO! What should my workouts consist of? How many mins of cardio/day? Reps/sets/how many, how much weight? Any advice appreciated

Matt
 
What type of equipment do you have in your house?

At what level you can exercise right now? Intense but short time, moderate or low intensity?
 
I am not sure where people get the idea that you can't lose fat while gaining muscle. You can! The more muscle you gain, the more energy your body requires, the more fat you are going to loose.. unless you keep upping your intake too.

The best way to gain muscle and lose fat is to have high intensity workouts. The same activity may be at different levels of intensity for different people so you have decide what level is your high intensity. Doing a set and then sitting around waiting for the next set isn't the best way.

A great approach would to have a focus muscle group, lets say legs. You set up where you start with squats, and then while your legs are recovering, you do a set of pushups, some medicine ball chops, and a plank without resting from one exercise to the next. Then you do another group starting with a heavy leg exercise and lighter non-leg exercises following. Since I started doing this style of workouts, my BF has dropped from 17% to 13% and I have gained 7 lbs overall.
 
Arobe said:
I am not sure where people get the idea that you can't lose fat while gaining muscle. You can! The more muscle you gain, the more energy your body requires, the more fat you are going to loose.. unless you keep upping your intake too.

The best way to gain muscle and lose fat is to have high intensity workouts. The same activity may be at different levels of intensity for different people so you have decide what level is your high intensity. Doing a set and then sitting around waiting for the next set isn't the best way.

A great approach would to have a focus muscle group, lets say legs. You set up where you start with squats, and then while your legs are recovering, you do a set of pushups, some medicine ball chops, and a plank without resting from one exercise to the next. Then you do another group starting with a heavy leg exercise and lighter non-leg exercises following. Since I started doing this style of workouts, my BF has dropped from 17% to 13% and I have gained 7 lbs overall.
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While Losing body fat, you can see some muscle gain IF you are either returning back from prolong period of not working out OR starting weight training. Once you dip below the 10% range, its pretty hard to lose fat and gain muscle. I used to think like you man, when I returned back to working out. My strength was going up and up while shedding the weights off but I eventually hit the wall...

To the OP, for cardio try doing HIITs and some steady state in the morning if you can. If not, anytime that you can fit in is ok but go at it for 15+ minutes but I recommend at least 30 minutes (15 minute is by magazine standards).
 
Cavait: There are tricks that you can do to lose fat and gain muscle at the same time BUT it require detailing diet thoughout the week and managing carbs + nutrients. Not that it is impossible, just very difficult and no fun. Carb cycling = YUCK.... Being glycogen depleted sucks!!!
 
Doing exceries

awesomeame said:
OK I'm 6'1" 195lbs 18% BF. Been through a lot during the past couple yrs, had surgery, moved to a different city etc. etc. Needless to say I've fallen off the wagon, although the surgery wasn't exactly in my control. Now I'm in my new place, and all setup with a gym downstairs.

Basically I need to start from scratch. I want to lose BF, get down to say 12% or so, and have a muscular body overall. My diet is decent, good and clean ~1900cals/day, very protein heavy, minimal veggies/fruits. Note my diet must remain protein heavy because of my health, so no need to suggest I eat carbs, 'cause I can't :)

I need help in the cardio/weight training area-I don't know what to do there. I know I can't be gaining muscle and losing fat at the same time, but obviously I can't be a couch potato either, SO! What should my workouts consist of? How many mins of cardio/day? Reps/sets/how many, how much weight? Any advice appreciated

Matt
Click to expand...

I think doing exceries is really effective.Besides,keeping a balanced diet also pays out.What is most important is persitance.
 
Rick_CSCS said:
What type of equipment do you have in your house?

At what level you can exercise right now? Intense but short time, moderate or low intensity?
Click to expand...


Got a treadmill, elliptical, recumbant bike, free weights, ball, mat, and one of those pretty complex home gym weight training devices.

I can do intense, 90-95% MHR for short periods, ie 2-3mins. 80-85% MHR for 15-20mins, and 75-80% MHR indefinitely, 1hr+

I've tried to gain muscle and lose fat in the past but it has never worked for me. So I think this time around I'll cut first, then build. Do it proper.

So I should do HIIT/30+mins of cardio per day. Which is 80%+MHR right? Any weight training at all?

Thanks..

Matt
 
You must lift weight because cardio alone is not enough to get results fast.

This is what I say to anyone who wants to change their body by lowering their body fat which is the same thing as cutting or losing fat and gaining muscle at the same time. You will always gain some muscle and you will always lose some fat. The question is What do you want to do more?

My guess is to lose fat. Because you will gain some muscle in your journey to losing fat anyway.

You can't choose what your body is going to do. You can't tell your body to build muscle today and lose fat tomorrow. You can only control how to stimulate your body.

Think of the type of stimulus you give your body and your body will adapt to that stimulus. The wall everybody hits is not a stop in progress is first a mental wall because is the excuse most people use to not train hard or increase their weight even if they can't do the 12 reps they want. To push yourself harder everytime you workout is harder than what people think.

Well this is what you do to cut or lose fat which to me is the same S#%$$T unless you are a pro bodybuilder and cutting for them is a different process, but the same goal.

You decrease the amount of unhealthy carbs and unhealthy fats in your daily diet.

You start eating balanced meals (carb, protein and healthy fats) 5 to 6 times a day.

Your only carb intake is fruits and veggies

You must have some kind of post-workout meal to increase your results

This is only for your diet and if you plan your meals in writing the day before is really simple.

Now for training, High intensity, there are different ways to increase intensity.

1. more weight
2. more reps (not recomended because reps are always under-estimated)
3. more intense exercise ( a jump squat is harder than a squat)
4. less rest time between sets or exercises

The best format to train for muscle gain and fat loss are circuits and super sets of multijoint exercises, hybrid or combination exercises.

If you want to biceps curls, do them at the end of your workout as xtra work or combine it with shoulder press for a nice curl and press.

Follow this format, no rest between exercises or no more than 30 seconds. Rest no more than 1 minute between sets
repeat each circuit 3 times or more

1rst circuit or tri-set

1a.Push exercise horizontal heavy
1b.Leg quad dominant exercise heavy
1c.Core exercise

2nd circuit or tri-set

2a.Pull vertical heavy
2b.Leg glute dominant heavy
2c.Core exercise

3rd circuit or tri-set

3a. Push vertical heavy
3b. Pull horizontal heavy
3c. metabolic exercise (jumping jacks, db swings or mountain climbers)

How many reps? 5 to 7reps for heavy lifts, 8 to 12 for core. 30 to 50 for metabolic exercise

this is for each leg or each arm if you do an alternate exercise.

after this you do 20 minutes of high intensity cardio intervals

4 times a week and only cardio day 2 times a week you will see massive results.

This is a time efficient way to use your workout time. If your workouts take more than 1.5 hours then you are not using your time efficiently.

To push yourself is hard but it works

Good luck


Rick_CSCS
 
Hi Rick, thanks for the excellent post, rep +1!


Rick_CSCS said:
Push exercise horizontal heavy
Leg quad dominant exercise heavy
Leg glute dominant heavy
metabolic exercise (db swings or mountain climbers)
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What would be an example of a horizontal push, leg quad dominant, an leg glute exercise?

What are db swings and mountain climbers?

Thanks!

Matt
 
db swings = Dumbbell Swings, check for a video on youtube. Most of the time this exercise is done with kettlebells but a dumbbell is just fine. Is like a dead lift making a forward swing movement with the dumbbell that is created by momentum created with your hips and not by you lifting the dumbbell with your arm. Make sure the video is done by a certified pro and not some kid working out.

here is one

mountain climbers are done in a push up position, more like an olympic sprinting start position. you move your legs taking your knees as close to your torso as posible. is like climbing a wall in the floor. Also check on youtube here is one


horizontal push = horizontal relative to your body, or pushing forward.
push ups, bench press, incline press

Leg quad dominant = is any leg exercise that stimulate a higher % in your front of the leg muscles like your quadriceps. Squats, Step ups

glute dominant = stimulate a higher % in your back of the leg muscles like your glutes and hamstrings. Dead lifts, Rumanian Dead Lifts (RDL, you can use bar or DB), Swiss Ball Leg Curls.

Some people feel Bulgarian Squats to work more their glutes and some feel it more in their quads. To me this is one of the best, not many people do it because is hard and they are just afraid of looking like a struggling baby when they do it. You can start with just bodyweight and then dumbbells.

horizontal pulls= any type of rows (any grip)

vertical pulls = pull ups, chin ups, pull downs

Vertical push = shoulder press (bar, dumbbell, and any type of grip like hands forward or hammer grip (hands pointing your head), try also different grips on all the above pulling exercises.

For core check this exercises

Thanks for the rep

Take care

Rick_CSCS
 
Great posts Rick!!! Everyone should pay close attention to his posts.

I would stay away from the 30+ mins of steady state cardio and stick to the 20 min intercal training. The ONLY time I ever recommend cardio of any kind for longer than 20 mins is when my clients are planning on doing a 5k or a 10k run. Even then, I can get you into great 5k or 10k shape without even touching the treadmill.
 
I like the whole workout outline Rick and it's a great glycogen depletion setup but why can't someone workout for 30+ minutes of cardio at SS? Wouldn't the SS workout after the depletion is done a great time to go into fat burning zone and try to work off those extra fat pounds? HIITs would be great but not really pausible after a hard depletion workout, no? In the big scheme, isn't a calorie burn still a calorie burn as long as you don't it back?
 
The Fat Burning Zone is a concept that I only recommend for two reasons

1. You can't work hard. Because of obesity or injury rehab.
For obese individuals, because their body's capacity to burn fat is low. Why I don't know why. I learned this in a class while finishing my masters’ degree.

Obese individuals burn a higher % of carbs while resting than regular people. Is like the FBZ is inverted for them. My own theory is that their organs and systems are always working hard. Just to sustained their life and when they start doing low intensity stuff, their body responds like a regular person doing high intensity.

2. You have all the time in the world to work out like "the biggest loser show" Even those people lose a lot of fat lifting weight and training hard and the only day they did yoga some of them gain weight. To me this was funny because I don't like Yoga.

Okay back to the topic.

The FBZ effect was only measured in studies; during the workout time and it was only about calories and fat calories burned during the workout. 1 hour 45 minutes that's all. Also there was no data about body composition effects after training.

So, in a graphic it looks like you are burning more fat but it was never proven for real world results. Even using the same principles of the FBZ we can get this:

During 1 hour of watching TV
Calories burned= 100 {%fat burned 70} Calories from Fat 70

Jogging steady state for 1hr
Calories = 300 {%fat 60} Calories from fat 180

Running Fast for 1hr
Calories = 600 {%fat 40} Calories from fat 240 + the metabolic effect = ?

This is without looking the increase in your metabolism which I believe would be greater for running fast.

The truth is that most studies about slow, long cardio on body composition are a joke. People lose like 3 pounds of fat in 6 months of running for 45 minutes to 1 hour 3 to 5 times a week.

Studies on strength training and sprint training show 3 to 6 times the results in half the time.

The key is to progress and work harder and not for a longer period of time.

If you sit, then you stand up
If you are standing, then you walk
If you walk, then you run
If you run, then run faster and jump.

Reach your goals and if you don't, then make yourself reach your goals. Don't stop. A lot of people stop after the day they wanted to reach their goals. Just keep working and you'll get there.

Lets say you wanted to lose 10 pounds in 2 months. At the end you lost only 6. You can stop there, or you can keep working and in 2 more months be 12 pounds lighter. You end up losing 12 pounds instead of 10.

Working hard is difficult because is not only physical but requires a lot of mental dicipline. If you train hard for 4 weeks in a row, take 2 to 3 days off and then start training again. I don't recommend the 1 week off because it makes it more difficult to start again.

Take care

Rick_CSCS
 
Well Said, Rick. Preach on. I like your approach and putting a positive spin on things. Good stuff man!!!
 
awesomeame said:
So for 20mins of interval cardio how would you break it down in mins:MHR% ?

Matt
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MHR%

I'm guessing is max heart rate

Well the first thing to do is to find your max heart rate in terms of your true performance level. For example, the # in which you can't talk and exercise at the same time or the moment when you feel your muscles are not responding well.

If you can't talk is a respiratory fatigue and if you can't move is muscular fatigue. Find your number at the type of fatigue that doesn't let you keep going. You said that with the DB swings you got to 85%. Do you think you can go higher or is that your limit. (for now)

For some of my clients the first week, 67% is the highest they can go. Then we work on getting better and after 3 weeks they can reach 83% of their max HR without feeling like they are going to die.

Using the formula is good, as a reference # but I don't like to use it to determine your limit. Also the max HR formula has a big error margin of +/-14. Some studies say 27 and some say 9. I've seen 14 so I use that #.

This means that if your max HR is 200 using the formula, you could have a true max HR of 214 or or 184. To me that is too big of a margin.

Find your HR limit and how long does it take you to get there. This could be because respiratory fatigue or muscle fatigue. Muscle fatigue is more common when using a bike or a stairmaster. You should try it just sprinting outside. It shouldn't be more than 1 minute. Is the # you feel that you can't go no more as fast as you can. Then walk for like 4 minutes because you will need it.

Most people get it at 45 seconds of sprinting but I've had some people that can get 110% max HR (according to the formula) after 2 minutes in swimming. Not athlete but a 35 year old asian man, I got scared the first time I saw that and then looked at the research.

Ok, so you have your HR max and how long does it take (work time)

The HR max is your goal at the last rep of your interval. The work time is the max time you can spend on a rep.

You decrease the time by 10 or 20 seconds of the time it takes you to get 100% true max HR. And now you have the time for your work intervals.
I use a minimum of 20 seconds and not more than 2 minutes for work reps. For rest reps I use a minimum of 10 seconds and a maximum of 4 minutes depending on the person.

Your rest intervals will be according to your level. Use a ratio format like this:

1 to 1 ratio = 30seconds of work and 30seconds of rest
1 to 2 ratio = 30seconds of work and 60seconds rest
1 to 3 ratio = 30seconds of work and 90seconds rest

you can use it for 45second work intervals or 1 minute work intervals

a 20min Interval Workout can look like this

2min warm-up 50% of true max HR or less

1st rep - 30 seconds of work (hard sprinting) 70% of true max HR

30 seconds rest (walking) bring your HR at least by 20beats per minute

2nd rep - 30 seconds work 80% true max HR

if you continue like this and add 2 to 3 minutes of cool down you will do like 16, 30second sprints in 20 minutes

Your HR will reach 99% after the rep # 6

Most people I know have to take longer rest periods and do 7 to 10 reps in 20 minutes. This is very challenging but allows you to know your body and how much work you can do. Your body will tell you how hard you can go.

This is why you don't need a special waver to take a spinning class. Because you decide how hard you want to work and your body will slow down using fatigue to tell you when to slow down.

You'll be surprised of what you can achieve. And the challenge becomes your motivation.


One last note. Your workout should not make you puke. If it does then you need a longer rest period. This is why I don't follow the max HR formula. Just follow your breathing and when you need to rest look at your HR. Even if you stop it will go up like 5 beats per minutes after you stop.

I tried to be as simple as posible, hope this helps.
 
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