Lats have not grown.. at ALL

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ppx11

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I'm 5' 8" 165lbs and I've been working out for 2 years with a variety of split and full body programs. I've seen some improvements in body parts except my lats. They have not widened or gotten bigger AT ALL. I've done lat pulldowns (160lbs 3x10), pullups, bent over rows, seated cable rows, deadlifts, and the list goes on and nothing has helped my lats. They've gotten stronger but that's it. I've been on a bulking routine for the past few months and they STILL haven't grown even though I've gained about 10 good pounds. WHAT is going on? It's really pissing me off. It's especially noticeable if my hands are on my waist with my arms bent. It's a straight line. Ridiculous.
I think I've got bad genes in general since I gain VERY slowly aesthetically, even with a pretty strict diet and progressively heavier workouts. What pisses me off the most is seeing guys with nice physiques who are alot weaker than me even though I'm not exactly a big guy. I would gladly trade some strength for some nice looking muscles. I'm THIS close to stocking up on supplements cause I've been patient too long.. Sorry if this turned into a rant. Any help would be appreciated.
 
It takes time. A couple months is not really even a drop in the bucket. If you're getting stronger and eating enough, you should be growing. Your caloric intake might need to be looked at.

And it's hard to tell how you've structured things as far as effectiveness.

And remember...don't mistake size and strength as mutually inclusive.
 
in my experience, we all have some muscles that takes a bit more time than others. Try to play around a bit with different volume for the lats. That is, if your diet is ok ofcource.
 
for a lot of people it is hard to gain mass on their back. for me, its hard to get big calves. its annoying, yes.
and if it was not your training, then it has to be your diet. if you gained 10lbs in 2 years then i would tell you to eat more. thats a very slow bulk.
 
Really push youself 110% and lift as much as you can.

Although I wouldn't recommend this for deadlifts.

Do you have any stats for your pullups? BoR's or deadlifts?
 
betsie2k said:
Really push youself 110% and lift as much as you can.

Although I wouldn't recommend this for deadlifts.

Do you have any stats for your pullups? BoR's or deadlifts?
Click to expand...

Well for pullups I can do 3 sets of 10BW. Bentover rows is about 3x10 with 135lbs and deadlifts, the last time I did it (about 2 months ago cause I was on a new routine) I was able to do 175lbs 3x10. And over the two years I've been working out I gained about 25 pounds total (the 10 pounds was the last few months when I went on a very determined and strict bulking routine/diet). Granted my diet isn't like 100% but I try to eat as healthy and clean as possible getting veggies and lean meat/chicken w/ carbs at every meal. The weight has been coming (although now I'm plateauing again.. it's just so hard to keep up with the higher intake :[) it's just the aesthetic aspect I'm not happy with. My legs have gotten a little bigger and my arms as well (about half an inch) but that's it. No mass gain on my chest or back. I'm about to start the 5x5 as I cut for the next month or two and maybe that'll change things up although since I'm cutting I don't expect to gain any mass.
 
if you can do 3x10 strict form pullups, start adding weight by wearing a dip belt or holding plates/dumbells with your feet. chinups and pullups i think will help the most; they did it for me.

you row alot in proportion to your deadlifts. maybe try to increase your deadlifts. you shouldnt have cut out the deads for 2 months.
 
Door pull-ups.


Grab the top of a door with palms facing away and elbows pressed against the door, then pull-up.

Those have really worked my lats.
 
The best way to go is pull-ups, with a small twist of course. To get lats to show, it's more of an issue with stretching them outwards really, other than packing on more muscle. Doing just the negative part of a pull-up is the best, and one of the most direct lat exercises out there. Try this:

Do some lat pull-downs, strict, heavy, but don't wear yourself out. Then go straight to the pull-up bar and so just the negative part of a pull-up. This means you have to help yourself up as high as you can go, and try to hold that position, you will start to fall down slowly, but try to hold until you give out. That's one repetition, rest a few seconds and do another. As soon as you can, start strapping a belt on you with some plates.

Also, remember to do the lat pull-downs and then go straight to the negative pull-ups. There is a reason for that, I won't into it though, I'm tired... >_<

P.S. You should last over 25 seconds up there, that's a worthy repetition. You should notice results after two or three workouts.

-Roek
 
^^ yeah negative training is pretty awesome for gains and you get some hardcore doms from it too. Although you need someone to do the concentric phase for you.
 
Here is my 2 cents if I may... have you been making sure that you are using the correct form to perform your lat pulls and rows? As much as you may be anxious, you must stick with a strictly good form to perform these exercises before you start loading with additional weights. It is quite easy to let your body rock back and forth in order to hoist those extra weights, you may feel like doing more but in reality you are not hitting the lats at all this way.
It is a common and tempting mistake seen very often around the gym. Have a good trainer monitor your motions, and make sure they are done correctly.
 
Roek said:
The best way to go is pull-ups, with a small twist of course. To get lats to show, it's more of an issue with stretching them outwards really, other than packing on more muscle. Doing just the negative part of a pull-up is the best, and one of the most direct lat exercises out there. Try this:

Do some lat pull-downs, strict, heavy, but don't wear yourself out. Then go straight to the pull-up bar and so just the negative part of a pull-up. This means you have to help yourself up as high as you can go, and try to hold that position, you will start to fall down slowly, but try to hold until you give out. That's one repetition, rest a few seconds and do another. As soon as you can, start strapping a belt on you with some plates.

Also, remember to do the lat pull-downs and then go straight to the negative pull-ups. There is a reason for that, I won't into it though, I'm tired... >_<

P.S. You should last over 25 seconds up there, that's a worthy repetition. You should notice results after two or three workouts.

-Roek
Click to expand...

If one day your not tired, could you care to explain it to me?
 
Oh, and my take on eccentric training:

There is a time and place. The user, however, darn well better understand the concept of fatigue management. Eccentric training is very taxing.
 
I know what eccentric is.
"Also, remember to do the lat pull-downs and then go straight to the negative pull-ups. There is a reason for that, I won't into it though, I'm tired... >_<"

thats the part i was wondering about. Is it more "fancy" than just pre tireing the muscles?
 
Karky said:
I know what eccentric is.
"Also, remember to do the lat pull-downs and then go straight to the negative pull-ups. There is a reason for that, I won't into it though, I'm tired... >_<"

thats the part i was wondering about. Is it more "fancy" than just pre tireing the muscles?
Click to expand...

Haha, sorry Karky! I figured you knew that... I was :confused:

I thought you bolded the word "negative," but now I see the OP did.
 
Thanks for all the replies. I'll try focusing 110% on my form as well as try the negative pullups. I have crap genetics in general when it comes to building muscle (strength gains come nicely though, especially with my legs) so I may be out of luck.. Two years and still no lats? :(
 
Crap genetics = eat more

And again, I would watch those eccentrics. If you feel that you are a "hardgainer," I'd stick to more conventional methods like:

Focusing on adding "weight on the bar" so to speak.
 
Proteinboy said:
i am also anxious to learn about eccentric training
Click to expand...

What's to know?

It's really just focusing on the eccentric portion of the rep. You place more/all of the emphasis on this. Dropping the weight slowly for a specific count.

The literature supports that eccentric contraction DOES contribute to hypertrophy equally, if not more than concentric contraction.

However, at what cost? It is very taxing on your overall system.... physically and neurally. I am not saying it isn't good. It can be if utilized properly.

Managing fatigue is a concept that most lifters miss. Because of this, I err on the side of NOT including eccentrics in a routine unless you understand the concept of managing fatigue.

It's certainly not something to use in isolation.
 
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