full-body workouts

[jonny100]

I recently read an article on T-Nation about the benefits of training in the old fashioned way, ie. doing full-body workouts every other day for 3 days a week, instead of splitting up muscle groups.

After trying this once, I realised that by the time I've finished something like bench press, my arms are too fatiguied to be able to do military press properly. how do i overcome this problem?
would it be ok to simply alternate which of those 2 comes before the other for each workout? meaning for example, that i would only be properly hitting my chest once every 2 workouts.

(p.s. i know that with full-body routines you should constantly be changing parameters, but my question is strictly to do with fatiguing before certain exercises)

 

[soccergod]

i think you are going to failure. Pick a set rep that is good for you either for strength or mass. 5x5 is very good for strength and 4x8 is good for mass. Try one of those. if you do less reps then the weights have to be heavy for you. And if done right you really shouldnt be very tired, you should be able to do more. I do 5x5 and i am able to finish every day. Its hard but i do it.

 

[buzz]

dont do 2 pressing movements together do a push then a pull.

 

[jonny100]

I thought training to failure was the best method for increasing mass? ie. breaking your muscles right down so that they grow back bigger.

thanks for the push / pull tip buzz.

 

[Karky]

do you do military press right after bench?
On the days i do bench press, i dont do military press because of fatigue.

 

[dswithers]

A full body routine can be as few as 3 movements:
1. lower body
2. push
3. pull
You can set up every other workouts with workout A and B :
1. lower body:
A. Quad Dominant (squat, stepup or lunge)
B. Rear Chain Dominant (deadlift, good morning, SLDL or RDL)
2. push
A. Horizontal Push: Bench Press (barbell, dumbell, incline, flat, decline)
B. Vertical Push: Overhead Press (military press, push press, behind the neck press)
3. pull
A. Horizontal Pull: Bent Row
B. Vertical Pull: Pullup,Chinup...
A.

 

[jonny100]

The article I'm referring to is this T Nation: Total-Body Training for anyone interested in reading it.

I appreciate what you're saying (dswithers) about needing only 3 movements per workout, but surely something like 6 is better if you can manage it?
For me personally, the only two exercises that I can't manage in the same session are horizontal press and vertical press, and as far as horizontal and vertical pull are concerned...I have no access to anything I can use as a chinup bar, so I would have to stick with horizontal pull. This would allow me in each workout to do squat, deadlift, bench press / vertical press, bent row, along with abs and biceps (for example), which would be 4 compounds and 2 isolations.
Would this be a good workout plan to follow, assuming that I alternate between horizontal and vertical press and vary the parameters as the article suggests?

also, what is the consensus on training to failure? I always thought this was optimal for size gains.

thanks for all help guys

 

[buzz]

training to faliure should only be done occasionally

DIFFERENTIAL EFFECTS OF STRENGTH TRAINING LEADING TO FAILURE VERSUS NOT TO FAILURE ON HORMONAL RESPONSES, STRENGTH AND MUSCLE POWER GAINS.

J Appl Physiol. 2006 Jan 12;

Izquierdo M, Ibanez J, Gonzalez-Badillo JJ, Hakkinen K, Ratamess NA,
Kraemer WJ, French DN, Eslava J, Altadill A, Asiain X, Gorostiaga EM.

The purpose of this study was to examine the efficacy of 11 weeks of
resistance training to failure vs. non-failure, followed by an
identical 5- week peaking period of maximal strength and power
training for both groups as well as to examine the underlying
physiological changes in basal circulating anabolic/catabolic
hormones.

Forty-two physically-active men were matched and then randomly
assigned to either a training to failure (RF; n=14), non-failure
(NRF; n=15) or control groups (C;n=13). Muscular and power testing
and blood draws to determine basal hormonal concentrations were
conducted before the initiation of training (T0), after 6 wk of
training (T1), after 11 wk of training (T2), and after 16 wk of
training (T3). Both RF and NRF resulted in similar gains in 1RM bench
press (23% and 23%) and parallel squat (22% and 23%), muscle power
output of the arm (27% and 28%) and leg extensor muscles (26% and
29%) and maximal number of repetitions performed during parallel
squat (66% and 69%). RF group experienced larger gains in the maximal
number of repetitions performed during the bench press The peaking
phase (T2 to T3) followed after NRF resulted in larger gains in
muscle power output of the lower extremities, whereas after RF
resulted in larger gains in the maximal number of repetitions
performed during the bench press.

Strength training leading to RF resulted in reductions in resting
concentrations of IGF-1 and elevations in IGFBP-3, whereas NRF
resulted in reduced resting cortisol concentrations and an elevation
in resting serum total testosterone concentration. This investigation
demonstrated a potential beneficial stimulus of NRF for improving
strength and power, especially during the subsequent peaking training
period, whereas performing sets to failure resulted in greater gains
in local muscular endurance. Elevation in IGFBP-3 following
resistance training may have been compensatory to accommodate the
reduction in IGF-1 in order to preserve IGF availability.

 

[Cynic]

You could also get "New Rules of Lifting" for a different and equally if not more effective style of full-body.

The moves that book is based on are:

Squat
Deadlift
Lunge
Push
Pull
Twist (ab work)