Forum rules?

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Harold14370

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Is there a thread somewhere that discusses the rules of the forum, in particular the one about "spam" links? Cause I think your rules are weird, and inconsistently applied.
Never mind, I found this:

"2. Spam is strictly forbidden. Spam is the obvious, leaving links to any website that is selling a product. Spamming is also left up to moderators discretion. For example, if a newcomer joins and every post asks people to check out their blog, they will too be banned for spamming. Spamming also includes leaving links in your signatures."

Well, I posted a link to a site that was selling NOTHING, and had it deleted, with a warning. Yet, I find lots of links to sites that sell stuff. What's with that?
 
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The rules are listed in this thread:

http://weight-loss.fitness.com/newcomers/15864-welcome-newbies-tips-help.html

Rules 2, 10, and 12 are the ones that deal specifically with links, including email addresses:

2. Spam is strictly forbidden. Spam is the obvious, leaving links to any website that is selling a product. Spamming is also left up to moderators discretion. For example, if a newcomer joins and every post asks people to check out their blog, they will too be banned for spamming. Spamming also includes leaving links in your signatures.

10. If you put something in your signature that is excessively large or annoying, it will be removed at the discretion of the moderation team, this includes spam (links) as well.

12. Posting your email address is prohibited. We have a message system and you can communicate with other members through that.
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If you're referring to the thread where the link to a Google search was removed, we the Mods are discussing that currently. We're awaiting feedback from the site Admin on the specifics. As soon as we get a definitive statement, we'll let you all know. :)
 
Well, I posted a link to a site that was selling NOTHING, and had it deleted, with a warning. Yet, I find lots of links to sites that sell stuff. What's with that?
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Not knowing what the link was, I can't say, but you don't have an Infraction on your record (I would see it on your profile if you did).

If you want to send me or Korrie or any other mod the link, we'll discuss it and review.
 
Harold, I looked at the link and went ahead and restored that post.

I guess that was the post that triggered your thread on rules. :)

I'll be honest - we get (and I'm not exaggerating here) over 100 spam posts a day. Some days all I do is delete one spam thread after another. If I took the time to look in depth at all of them, I'd have to quit my job and do nothing but patrol the site. Sometimes I do just make a quick judgment.

In this context, when someone who has only a handful of posts to the site posts a one line post with a link, sometimes I do make a snap judgment, especially if I'm doing a quick "spam scan" through the site on a break at work or whatever.

I'll admit I'm not perfect. :) None of us Mods are. And keep in mind that none of us gets paid for this. We're all volunteers who do this as part of our participation on the board and we have to fit it in during our days as well.

If you feel a link has been removed in error, a polite PM (and seriously, you'd be surprised at some of the asshatty PMs I've gotten) to a Mod asking for clarification is fine. We won't get pissy as long as you don't get pissy with us first. :)

[copied from the original thread where the link was deleted]
 
There was that one of mine but also the one by VJYoung where he posted a link to a charitable non-profit organization, and it was related to his weight loss efforts too. I couldn't understand that at all. And of course we often see links to Fitday or Lyle McDonald's site. I have no objection to those at all. They are actually helpful and useful, but I do think the guidelines ought to be clearer.

As far as the outright spam is concerned, the whole post should be deleted and the user banned if they are just peddling the usual diet snake oil.
 
As far as that VJyoung situation goes, his links are not permitted because....#1) we dont' allow any links from newbies. The guy signs up and EVERY post contains a link to his PERSONAL website. This is called spamming. Period. It might be the most nobel cause on earth, but trying to drive traffic to your personal site is spamming.
 
also the one by VJYoung where he posted a link to a charitable non-profit organization,
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YOu mean the charitable non-profit organization that he owns and draws his personal income from? Yeah, that's not allowed.

Look, I don't think the rules are all that unclear. If you're posting to a site that you profit from, it's spam. If you post the same link over and over and over and over again, it's spam. If you post one liner responses to a bunch of posts (especially pulling up posts that are more than 3 months old to do it) in order to get more exposure for your signature file, it's spam. If you post teaser advice, admit you're a trainer or a fitness professional, and then say "for more information email me at the email in my profile", it's spam.

We, the moderators, sometimes have to use our best judgment and make a decision. Sometimes we mess up and delete something that shouldn't be deleted. We're human, we're volunteers, we're doing the best we can. If it's brought to our attention, we'll do our best to remedy it. But otherwise, arguing with us over what's spam and what's not is not really effective.

I promise you, if we stopped deleting spam, this site would be so overrun as to be useless to anyone.

Is it really necessary to keep going with this?
 
Yea, it's tough to draw a clear line at times. A lot of links are left to the discretion of the mod/admin team and that's the way it is.

It would be silly to not allow links to fitday as it's a tool that has helped thousands of people here and the people posting the links are objective - meaning they're not coming here posting links to fitday for profit.

Same with the Lyle McD links. Posters aren't profiting off of his links. He's simply one of the best writers in the field and has things that many around here need to hear. So keeping said info from the member base here would be silly.

When someone new signs up here and immediately starts posting links on the forum, it's quite obvious what they're here for. Especially when said links are selling stuff or have google ad links embedded. These are the things that are going to get you banned or warned.

If you're looking for a rule that says, "Never ever ever ever can there be an external link posted on this forum" you're not going to find it. The rule is more based on common sense.

I was posting here for years and spending massive amounts of time helping out the community before Sean (admin) allowed me to post a link to my site in my signature in return for my "services." And even with that, we quibble over it at times.
 
KaraCooks said:
YOu mean the charitable non-profit organization that he owns and draws his personal income from? Yeah, that's not allowed.
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Where did you come up with this? I have never received a penny from EnviroCorps! I have donated thousands to the organization!
 
Korrie said:
regarless...its your personal site, which is not permitted to be spammed all over the forum.
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What does this mean "If you would like to let other visitors to this site know the URL of your own web site, enter it here"? Is any link posted by me spam? I am still very confused.
 
its not that hard everyone..MOST links are not permitted. period. It doesnt' matter if its given the title "spam" or not. There are a few exceptions however. Links to well known sites like fitday, sparkpeople, ect. ARE allowed. With established members, links to myspace or some kind of blog ARE allowed.

Links that take you to a personal website or a site that trying to sell a product is NOT permitted.

We are more lienent to members that have been here for a while. BUT if your a newbie, we are more quick to remove links. In your case, HARROLD14370, your 1st post contained a link, therefore was automatically removed. Us mods removed TONS of spam EVERYDAY and sometimes, like Kara said, we act too quickly. Which is why, HARROLD, kara reinstated the link you posted.

When it comes down to it, the mods are instructed to use our 'instincts' when it comes to links if its permitted or not. Theres too many variety of sites and such out there for there to be "strict, concrete rules" on the matter.
 
vjyoung said:
What does this mean "If you would like to let other visitors to this site know the URL of your own web site, enter it here"? Is any link posted by me spam? I am still very confused.
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I don't know where you got that quote, but I THINK its referring to the fact that users ARE allowed to have a homepage link in their profile. This is anything you want it to be, even if we think its spammy. AS LONG as you arn't typing "check out my page" ya know?
 
VJ,

Before you changed the occupation field in your profile to "retired", you listed your occupation as President or CEO (or owner, or primary, or something like that) of the site that you were posting in every single message.

You came on this board as a newbie and immediately began soliciting people to volunteer or sponsor you in collecting trash to benefit this company for which you were listed as some kind of owner or management. You posted a link to this company in every single post you made. Now I don't care if you don't draw a penny of income from the site or not, you were involved in it in more than a general way, and you were asking people to sponsor your trash collection and directing them towards the link.

All of this has been explained to you in PM and in your journal (both by me and by the other mods). Here's the link to the post I made in your journal explaining it: http://weight-loss.fitness.com/653007-post10.html

I'm sorry if you don't like it. I'm sorry if you're confused. I think the removal of links in your posts and the reason we gave you was pretty straightforward. You were posting links to a company to which you had some kind of ownership tie. That's spam. And it was removed.

I really really really am not going to go into it again with you here, or in private.

Kara
 
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Ok, so I just read Harold's comments in VJ's journal. I'm a little frustrated, but I'm going to try to explain this in a way that you guys might get it.

This site has hundreds of new registrations per day. It has over 100 spam posts on an average weekday. If you guys saw the amount of spam we remove, you'd be shocked. Seriously.

Now, someone might get upset because we remove links to charitable volunteer sites. That's not right, you say. This is for charity, you say. This is a "good deed" - why are you punishing that.

Ok. Sure. So I allow VJ to post links to his site. Then I have to allow EVERYONE else to post links to their charity of choice. And it doesn't matter whether it's a charity that someone else might have a moral objection to - if one person gets to post, the so should everyone, right? So if someone wants to post soliciting funds for PETA and someone else wants to post soliciting funds for a non-profit charity to help parolled sex-criminals and someone else wants to post soliciting funds for anti-abortion clinics, and someone else wants to post soliciting funds for pro-choice rallies ... we have to allow ALL OF THEM.

And then ... then the mods get to clean up that mess in addition to everything else.

And if charities are allowed, then why not allow people to solicit funds for for-profit organizations that they aren't affiliated with? I mean if the money isn't going to them, why not allow them to post that?

And then, well why not just allow people to post any link and let the members decide?

Where does it stop? It doesn't.

The only FAIR way to do this is to say no commercially based links. No solicitations. No charities. No volunteers. No links to your homepage that has ads on it. No links to your brother's business. No links to anything that isn't a VALID resource for weight loss that isn't a direct solicitation to buy some product.

It's the only fair thing.

And yes, you can say that all the moderators are Grinches. You can call us selfish and rude and say that "no good deed goes unpunished" when we remove a link for a charity. You can bitch and moan and whine about it all you want.

But until you walk a mile in our shoes and clean up the volumes of spam that we clean up every day, perhaps instead you'd like to say to all of us: Thank you guys for helping keep this board clean and readable and not overrun with spam and ads and porn and all the other stuff that you remove on a daily basis. Thanks for giving us a place to come discuss things and not be slapped in the face with ads and sales pitches. Thanks for volunteering your time and effort. We appreciate it.

Or don't.

Whatever. This thread is now closed. The rules have been explained. If you have a question or you think one of the Mods is acting in an unfair or an unfavorable or a biased manner, PM AllCdnBoy - that's Sean and he is the Admin of the board. What he says goes.
 
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