Cut or Stay the Course?

ToothlessFerret

New member
Stats

44 year old male. 146 pounds. Body fat - using electric resistance scales only, 21%. UK jean size 30.

Diet

I don't know my calorific intake. However, for diet I aim for healthy balance. I eat lots of lean protein (poultry white meat, hard boiled eggs, plenty of fish, shellfish, nuts/seeds, beans/pulses, oats, low fat dairy) but also (on a daily basis), I usually achieve my 5 portions fruit/veg, plenty of greens, seasonal, variety - mainly raw or steamed; good fats: mixed nuts daily, plus plenty of oily fish through week, some good oils for dressing, seeds; lots of fibre and wholemeals. I know that I obsess about food, but about its nutritional values only. Health and fitness is my aim.

2 typical days:

Breakfast large portion of porridge oats (oatmeal) cooked with semi-skimmed milk and added raisins, seeds, whey protein. Glass of orange juice.
Mid morning snack: reduced fat cottage cheese sandwich with two slices of wholmeal bread. A banana.
Lunch: Chicken breast fillet, 4 raw mushrooms, a raw carrot, an apple, an oat bar.
Mid afternoon snack: Can of herring fish in tomato sauce, two slices of wholemeal bread. A raw tomato.
Evening meal: Large steamed fillet of cod fish, steamed vegetables (sweet potato, broccoli, onion). Hummus on the veggies and a little reduced salt soy sauce or EVOL.
Supper: A handful of walnuts and almonds, a portion of blueberries, and a large portion of low fat yoghurt.

Example Day 2:

Breakfast: porridge oats cooked with semi-skimmed milk, a chopped banana, a little honey. Glass of orange juice.
Mid-morning snack: two hard boiled eggs, an apple, an oat bar.
Lunch: Canned tuna sandwiches (4 slices of wholemeal bread), raw baby spinach. Some grapes.
Mid-afternoon snack: whey protein shake, peanut butter with two slices of crispy rye bread. a tomato.
Evening meal: Two fillets of chicken white meat. Steamed vegetables (kale, swede/rutabaga), mixed organic beans, walnut oil dressing.
Late snack: mixed nuts (walnuts, cashews, pine nuts), small portion of raisins, covered with low fat yoghurt.

My main cheat is alcohol. I have greatly reduced my average consumption, but I have a bottle of wine some weeks, and about once per month or so, go out to the pub and have a wee bit too much ;-) I also sometimes have a large chinese meal with my family.

Exercise
I was visiting the gym 4 times per week for a few months, but since Christmas, I have had to adapt my programme to this:
Weight training twice per week.
Running with my dog twice per week.
Dog-walking five times per week.

Weight training details: I know that I need to improve here. Sessions last 60 to 90 minutes. I start with 5 minutes or so gentle cardio to warm up. Then I hit either chest, arms, or legs. When I say hit them, I mean for example, on a chest day, I start with bench presses - either dumbbells or smithy. I try to increase my weights, and go for failure. 3 or 4 sets of 5 to 9 reps typically 7. I try a variety of chest exercises, but then finish off with other weight exercises such as assisted pull ups, lat pulls, etc. On a leg day, I start with leg press, then squats on the smithy, maybe leg curls, and deadlifts. On a arm day - start with arm curls (including inverted) on an EZ bar, hammer curls with dumbbells, narrow handle lat pulls etc. Concentrating on arm exercises but not exclusively. Being a busy public gym, I cannot always use what euipment that I want to use on any particular day - so I have to work around others and available equipment. I also try for variety, always trying something new. Exercises that I seem to do a lot of include bench presses, assisted pull ups, lat pulls, arm curls.

Running details: I start at home with warm up exercises - unweighted squats, lunges, high steps etc. Then harness myself to the husky brute and run cross country and cross town 3 to 5 miles. The first mile is the hardest because the husky goes for it! It has its dangers - squirrels and cats for example, but I don't want to give that up - its a man-dog partnership thing. I finish with static stretches and a hot bath!

Dog-Walking: being pulled by a husky that wants to run, for 1 to 5 miles on every day that I don't run.

Clear reason and question for the post
I think that I eat alot. I eat for nutrition not for hunger - I rarely feel hunger. But despite eating like this for nearly five months (post weightloss), I have not increased any weight. I am lifting bigger weights, and I feel more muscle - but I still have too much body fat, and the scales tell me that I haven't put on a pound! I still have too much bodyfat on my belly and moobs. I am tempted to cut again, and go with weight loss - but as it is I am only 146 pounds and spot on my 'ideal BMI' for what its worth.

Should I be patient and carry on as I am, or should I cut for body fat? Can you tell me how I should improve my strength training workouts? I don't want to give up the dog-running - it makes me and the beast feel great.

Current and overall goal

Until 11 months ago, at the age of 43, I had never exercised, never participated in sports, ate junk, drank too much. I was 48 pounds overweight. By August, I had lost that excess weight, started running, and belonged to a gym. I achieved that goal. Since then, my goals have been to maintain my weightloss, increase fitness, live longer, and to look better. In the looking better department, I would like more muscle and also to dump this impossible to get rid of body fat on my torso.

How long you have been doing what you are doing in diet and routine

Eating healthy 11 months (but stopped cutting 5 months ago when I hit ideal BMI).
Running/walking/cycling 9 months.
Strength training 5 months initially 4 times per week, now 2 times per week.

Any medical problems or injuries we should be aware of

Back pains. Upper-middle back. Lifting doesnt agitate it - standing for long periods does. Tried deep tissue massage, acupuncture, pain killers. Under medical investigation still. It is slowly getting easier, and less of a problem. I had to give up Tai Chi - as standing still with my arms stretched out in front agitates it much more than any lifting. Stretching eases it.

Otherwise good blood pressure, cholestrol levels, sexual appetite, etc - better than ever - like a 21 year old :)

Please try to be gentle with me - I am a self-confessed fitness n00b!
 
wow you've really transformed your life, well done! i think a lesson in it really is never too late to change a lifetime of bad habits.
I'll be off now and let those in the know answer but just wanted say well done! :)
 
First off good information, makes things a lot easier.

21% body fat for you size seems a tad high to me, electronic testers can be way off in our favor or against us. I would look into getting just a cheap pair of calipers to better gauge your results.

Bodybuilding.com - AccuFitness Accu-Measure Calipers - Offers Fitness In A Pinch! On sale now!

Here are the problems I notice...

That being whatever you do (bulk or cut) you need to get specific with what you take in. Diet is 80%. You can lift or run all you want and it wont change anything if your diet isn't on key. So you need to start calculating your daily caloric intake and ratios.

Now it seems from what you have stated you have been trying to put on muscle. Well you aren't training for what is going into your body, and when you are training you are over training and not training correctly. Too many exercises, too many isolation exercises. Splitting up body parts like that isn't needed for beginners or most really. Bodybuilders need it after years of training and trying to sculpt and work with proportion. You need to just work on key big movements and compound exercises. A 3 day a week full body program would suit your goals (either one) just fine. And a lifting session shouldn't be longer than 45-60 mins.

It is your decision to bulk or cut but I will tell you why I am in favor of a cut first and then bulk.

One you didn't go about bulking the right way and need to grasp that concept before you start again. Two even though your BF% may not be that high it is still a little high to head into a bulk IF that is you care about your looks during the process. Bulking will bring some fat gain, though if you do it right not to much. The best diet and training program will give .5lbs of pure muscle a week. That is if you are on POINT. Gaining muscle is a lot harder than losing fat. Having a clean base to work with (lower body fat) makes it easier to track progress and see where adjustments can be made.

Either way at your size if cutting you should stay around 20% deficit and if bulking around 10 to 15% increase and move as needed. So if you BMR is around 1600 and then add activity at about 1.4 we get roughly 2250 caloric intake for maintenance. This mean level where you wont gain any or lose any weight with activity you are doing. To lose fat cut by 20% giving you a deficit caloric intake of roughly 1800 calories. If you wanted to bulk you would up it by 15% at most at first giving you a caloric intake of roughly 2600. That is what you would need to work on gaining muscle with minimal fat increase. Upping as you listen and see where your body is going.


So overall I would cut down to at least 13-14% body fat and then go from there into a slower and more focused bulking program.

Whatever you decide good luck on your goals.
 
I agree on the bodypart split routine needing rework. You didnt even mention hitting your back. Do you have rounded shoulders?

Leigh hit the nail on the head.

I would check out the book "New Rules of Lifting" for great routines on Fat Loss, Hypertrophy, and Strength.
 
Rowan: thanks! Its not been as difficult for me as some might imagine. The journey isn't over yet - if its ever over, I still want to improve, hence my posting here. But thanks - this board really is the bees knees for support.

Leigh: thank you very much for that advice, it seems sound advice. I know that I have been 'playing' at this, and have lacked direction. I'll think it over this week, but yes, I do think that I will cut calories again soon. By the way, I forgot to mention that my height is 5ft 8". I know that BMI isn't a hard rule, but at the moment, I'm spot on - which is why I am cautious about reducing further. Regards "key big movements and compound exercises", if possible, could you point me in the direction of what that might entail, maybe a link or some examples? No worries if not, I can search around the Net.

Tony: Oops, yes, I realised today that I didn't mention back exercises. Yes, I have been having some 'back sessions'. Shoulders - I have to be careful there, for example, shoulder presses with dumbbells I can find quite painful, and I have had a 'twinge' in my right shoulder recently whenever I attempt them. What are my shoulders and back like? I just took some photos and uploaded them to this board HERE.

Thanks for all of the sound advice!
 
Leigh: thank you very much for that advice, it seems sound advice. I know that I have been 'playing' at this, and have lacked direction. I'll think it over this week, but yes, I do think that I will cut calories again soon. By the way, I forgot to mention that my height is 5ft 8". I know that BMI isn't a hard rule, but at the moment, I'm spot on - which is why I am cautious about reducing further. Regards "key big movements and compound exercises", if possible, could you point me in the direction of what that might entail, maybe a link or some examples? No worries if not, I can search around the Net.

The BMR was just an estimation. You can go here to figure it out more closely, best guess.

As for exercises what that means is movements that use multiple joints/muscles
For example a bicep curl or leg curl just isolates one area.
A squat on the other hand targets many areas at one time.
You can get a great full body workout from these...

Squat
Deadlift
Rows
Pull ups/chin ups
Military press
Dips
Planks

This is just to name a few but hopefully that paints a picture.
 
Thanks very much Leigh, sorry for appearing dim but that does answer my question. I do enjoy the deadlifts, and have been making good progress there recently. Although I have gotten away with avoiding calorie tracking up to now, I finally signed up with Fitday.com yesterday. What a great idea! Its a bit fiddly, especially for us as its database is very U.S focused, but I really can see the benefits of tracking now. For example, last night, I realised that I was rather down in protein. All that I had was a can of cod-fish roe, which I can't stand, but I forced myself to swallow it, yuck ;)

I can see that I am going to have some more questions regarding calories burnt, nutrition, rates, how far to cut etc, but I'll reserve those for another thread, another day.

I've decided that I really don't like this residual flab, and I'm going to cut through March to see if it makes any difference. I'll try and look around for a cheap set of calipers, but I'm really stony broke at the moment.

So ... thank you all again for your help!
 
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