Cardio vs. Weights: Which One First?

I've been doing my cardio before lifting. I think I get more out of my cardio sessions that way, because if I do cardio after weights I become exhausted much more quickly.

However, I've heard that:

Cardio 1st: more Fat loss
Cardo 2nd: more Muscle gain

Is there any truth to these statements? Which should I be doing first? I obviously want to gain muscle while losing fat. Seeing as how this is very difficult, I'd pick losing fat over gaining muscle.
 
Hi Clint-

This was a question that I stuggled with too and asked around different people and what I have found is that to be pretty acurate is pasted below from someone else:


First off, this is a very general rule to go by, and takes 1st precedence.
Resistance training should always take priority over cardio. Here's why....

The long term gains of increased LBM (lean body mass) and increased secretion of hormones like GH and test far outweigh the calories burnt during a cardio session..

By doing cardio before weights you are simply reducing the amount of glycogen available that could have been used more effectively to fuel your muscles throughout the weight training session...This point cannot be stressed enough.

Here are the top 3 scenarios for doing weights and cardio in order of importance:

#1 - On non-weight training days
#2 - weights in the am and cardio in the pm
#3 - light-cardio after weights


Now, that being said, here are a couple scenarios that are most proposed/asked about by folks, so different protocols need/can be effective. For the person who is lean and wanting to save muscle mass while burning fat, then the above scenarios cannot be altered in any way! You are asking for loss of lean tissue if you do cardio on an empty stomach or any such nonsense. You are already into a catabolic state from the overnight fast, and you are compounding this by doing cardio without fuel. Cortisol will be running rampant, and eating at your lean tissue for fuel. The body is very adept at breaking down amino acids for glucose, and will greedily do so. Cortisol will liberate amino acids to produce glucose (glucose cannot be synthesized from fats) and can lead to muscle loss. I would propose the best scenario here would be to treat your cardio session as you do your resistance training session. Albeit a different PWO formula (protein/fiber/fats will fit the bill here, no impact on insulin, thus keep any lypololysis induced during your cardio session intact)), but still with the same intensity and purpose. You would not dream of working out on an empty stomach, would you? Never work out on an empty stomach. True, you will burn a buttload of calories, but they will be as much lean tissue as fat. Never sacrifice lean tissue (long term results) for a short term fix.

It is also perfectly fine to do a “warm up” session of cardio before your weight training session if you are mid range, not real lean but not lots of fat stores either. But, here you are on that borderline of getting a lean hard body, and building lean tissue should be your number one priority. But make sure this is no more than a warm up, just to get blood flowing. 5 minutes at most should suffice. I personally prefer to warm up with the exercise I am going to do…i.e…weights.

Now, on the other hand, if you have plenty of fat to spare, it can really become a non issue. I believe this is/should be obvious. You can do your cardio even before if you like, or even on an empty stomach, as in this case total calorie burn is your issue and not saving lean mass, for you probably don’t have enough to save or you have as stated plenty of fat stores to give up. Your body will freely give up fat stores in this case, but still, make your weight session your priority as per the long term benefits.

But, no matter what your physique may be at the time, do not center your workout around cardio. Make certain you incorporate resistance training, as this will in the long run be your best friend in the battle of the bulge. Lean tissue is a fat burner 24 hrs. per day, a cardio session ends when you stop doing it. (A little different with HIIT, but this is another whole subject.)
 
Most people try to separate cardio and weights. BUt if u want to do them back to back i would do cardio after a workout.
 
And if you want a simpler answer: cardio easily taps into fat for energy, because you don't need tons of energy in bursts, but long drawn out energy...resistance training, however, is all about explosive energy for maximum benefits.

If you do cardio first, you can run low on energy stored in the muscles as glycogen. Then that glycogen isn't available for your weight routine, so it isn't intense, and you don't get as much of a benefit from it because you couldn't work the body as hard as it could've been worked.

But on the flipside, if you lift weights first, you'll use up a lot of that glycogen, leaving your body little alternative but to burn fat for energy during the cardio session that follows.
 
if i do weights first, and cardio after, wouldnt that leave a bigger chanse of the cardio starting to burn off the proteins?
doesnt the body first burn suggar stuff, then fat, then protein?
i dont have alot of fat on my body myself.. and i DONT want to loose any protein since i do weight training? or is burning protein in cardio workout something that takes ALOT before happenes?
 
ok, so whats the best guildlines? any references that we can go to read and checkup? i think it will be more correct than everyone's "I think"
 
Clint56,
Yes it is, dragging a weight sled, the inmann or Rutman mile would be a few ways to do it. However that isn't what I intended with my question. Maybe I should be more clear with my question.

Most people do a variation of the following:
Cardio for 30 minutes
Lift weights
or
Lift weights
Cardio for
There are variations to this like M-W-F Cardio, T-Th-S Weights. But that pretty much sums up most people routine.

My question is why segment training like this. Why not do something that looks like this.
Run 400 M
Do 50 squats
Run 400 M
Do 50 Push ups
Run 400 M
Do 50 Pull ups
 
You wouldn't see strength gains from that, you're only working your typeI and some 2a muscle fibers, and avoiding your 2a (which are your anaerobic). Basically once you're breathing hard & fast, you're doing aerobics.
 
Actually I disagree with you. Maybe I was too specific again. These ladies are lifting 95 pounds. For a couple of them that is their bodyweight. They are lifting with extremely high heart rates and I would guess that they are primaraily working in the anaerobic energy systems. So your point is these ladies aren't strong or aren't making any strength gains?
 
If you look at Crossfit's purpose it is to...
CrossFit is the principal strength and conditioning program for many police academies and tactical operations teams, military special operations units, champion martial artists, and hundreds of other elite and professional athletes worldwide.
Keep in mind that is for more 'athletic type' people.. there's NO WAY the average person should be doing that type of conditioning... All it is, is a circuit style of training with more 'power' movements... Plus I'm sure that's not how they started training... they worked up to that level of training...

I'm kind of with both of you on this one... they have the right idea, but they just keep going... as you can tell at about the 3 minute mark their body is starting to fail, form breaks down, etc... they're taking breaks and their breathing harder... so it started off a little more anaerobic, but then goes to aerobic...Plus they are not lifting a whole heck of a lot, they're just doing more repetition which is endurance...

Their form gets so awful it even hurts to watch, they are just compinsating for being tired, which then increases chance of injury, works the wrong muscles, etc... So they're strong for the first 3 minutes I say...
 
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From what I have gathered doing cardio after weights is better because you can focus more on technique and get a full representation of your potential if you havnt alrwady tired yourself out on the cardio
 
Dex,
You have a couple of things very right, there is "NO Way" someone should just jump into this kind of training. The intensity could quite literally kill you. However, CrossFit goes on to say
The CrossFit program is designed for universal scalability making it the perfect application for any committed individual regardless of experience. We’ve used our same routines for elderly individuals with heart disease and cage fighters one month out from televised bouts. We scale load and intensity; we don’t change programs.
You go onto say,
Plus I'm sure that's not how they started training... they worked up to that level of training
Which proves the point of scalibility. I know all three of these women, and they all started out with PVC pipe or very light weights and worked there way up to this over time. I think any person with a brain can figure out that you have to start slowly and scale the load. Its almost like you're saying that a person walking into a gym and seeing someone bench 300#'s can't figure out that they should start with a lighter weight and work up.
We could discuss form, or the merits of the kipping pull up versus the deadhang pull up, but it truly misses the point. Look what these women are able to do. It is extraordinary. But the results are typical for CrossFit.
I'm a results kind of person.
 
Garddawg said:
Clint56,

My question is why segment training like this. Why not do something that looks like this.
Run 400 M
Do 50 squats
Run 400 M
Do 50 Push ups
Run 400 M
Do 50 Pull ups

While I won't argue with the results of crossfit, I don't see the purpose of 400 m jogs. I say jogs because your typical individual or many individuals for that matter could endure or keep up a high intensity level at such distances. 100 Ms, sure...maybe even 200.

I'm surprised they wouldn't advocate high intensity intervals instead...although I suppose if your goal was endurance-strength then this would be optimal.
 
I would absolutely endorse it, and by the way plugging in 200's would be much better for a beginner or intermidate person. Good call. By the way, the pic I post it of Dan John in your "Kilts" thread was taken at a CrossFit Cerification seminar.
 
Garddawg said:
I would absolutely endorse it, and by the way plugging in 200's would be much better for a beginner or intermidate person. Good call. By the way, the pic I post it of Dan John in your "Kilts" thread was taken at a CrossFit Cerification seminar.

They always have the coolest gym set up.

Thanks. Dan John rawks. :)
 
We could discuss form, or the merits of the kipping pull up versus the deadhang pull up, but it truly misses the point. Look what these women are able to do. It is extraordinary. But the results are typical for CrossFit.
The purpose of this thread isn't to show what those three girls did by promoting CrossFit. If you have worked at any normal club, a majority of females do NOT want to be like that anyways... On to of that, with that amount of stress on their body at the improper angles, I can't imagine what their bodies are going to be like when they can't do that type of training anymore...
 
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