Bench Discrepency

T

Tenken

0
Here's an interesting thing i've noticed, maybe someone can give me the logic behind it...

My barbell bench is horribly low compared to everything else. Including dumbbell bench. This applies for incline and decline also, as in Barbell Vs. Dumbbell.

Stats- 6'1, 187, 10% BF, 23, male
Maxes: Deadlift 300 (maybe more, i just cant grip it past that-working on it)
Squat: 435.

Barbell Bench: Can NOT finish 1 set of 10 at 135. I can do about 6 clean and its over.
Dumbbell Bench: something like 1 set at 60, then 70, then 80. 10 reps each set. And i mean 80 in each hand.

Weird huh? I can't figure it out for my life...i measure up well to everyone in the gym in all exercises except barbell bench. Grrr! :confused:
 
Off the chest. Lowering it all the way down gets me very stuck and strained, but i refuse to sacrifice form. Does that info identify the problem??
 
how wide is your grip?
are you pinning your shoulderblades back into the bench?

are you psyching yourself out of it?
 
I've tried wider and closer for more or less tricep use...Usually about 2 inches to the inside of the little lines if you know what i mean.

pinning my shoulderblades back? I don't understand this question =(

And psyching myself out of it, not a chance =)
 
I considered that too, but i dont see any way it would change the barbell vs dumbbell part and NOT my entire bench score.

Regardless, here ya go:

Mon- Back, biceps
Tues- Shoulders, Calves, Abs
Wed- Rest
Thurs- Quads, Hamstrings
Fri- Chest, Triceps
Sat-Cardio/Rest
Sun-Cardio/Rest
 
when bench pressing you should be retracting your shoulder blades and pinning them into the bench pad. The helps keep the chest puffed out, which helps ensure you're using the pecs to press up the weight.

its possible you're simply not using the pecs enough, and thus only the shoulders and tricpes are pressing up the weight...so you cannot do as much. when you go to dumbbells, you're using more pecs because your brain controls the muscle better during that exercise, so you press more weight successfully.

strength has a LOT to do with how many muscle fibers your brain/nervous system can maximally contract simultaneously.
just because you have a lot of muscle doesn't mean you're really strong, and just because you have a wiry build doesn't mean you're weak.

you might wanna through just a 25lb plate on each side, and train your brain to better control the pecs when benching.
I don't DB press above 60-65 lbs, but I bench 155lbs...so I think you can exceed 155lb bench if you just get the brain more focused.
 
Tenken said:
Regardless, here ya go:

Mon- Back, biceps
Tues- Shoulders, Calves, Abs
Wed- Rest
Thurs- Quads, Hamstrings
Fri- Chest, Triceps
Sat-Cardio/Rest
Sun-Cardio/Rest
Click to expand...

How can you expect to increase your bench when you are only doing chest once a week? Im sure the others around here will agree with me that you can not expect huge gains any time soon by working a muscle group only once a week.
 
I can give that a shot and see if anything changes in the next month Malkore, much appreciated.

As for Silent, hitting a muscle group once a week and destroying it is a pretty widely accepted practice and routine. I've heard of MANY overtraining problems from multiple times a week, ESPECIALLY in people who are no longer new to lifting.
 
I read your post, tenken..then I remembered this post and now it occurs to me for the umpteenth time that maybe my bench form sucks. I feel the same way you do, regarding my bench press being disproportionately weaker than my other lifts (though I'm a noob to the actual physical act of strength training and can't really tell yet). There are a lot of articles like that one on t-nation saying to lift in the powerlifting style rather than the normal way. I don't know if I buy it, but I've been considering giving it a try. Just thought I'd toss you the link incase it proves helpful.
 
Last edited:
Tenken said:
I can give that a shot and see if anything changes in the next month Malkore, much appreciated.

As for Silent, hitting a muscle group once a week and destroying it is a pretty widely accepted practice and routine. I've heard of MANY overtraining problems from multiple times a week, ESPECIALLY in people who are no longer new to lifting.
Click to expand...

Yes, read up on westside and yes bench with a powerlfiting form unless you want to mess up your shoulders, I can almost guarantee if you're benching with your elbows flared (and you aren't doing a ton of rotator cuff stuff) your RC's are lagging and you will have some shoulder problems eventually.

I agree with Silent as well. It's an awful assessment of anything that just because a lot of people do something, or a routine is "widely accepted" that it is correct.

This argument will go on until the world ends, but I'm just telling you flat out and honestly because I know you've been here for a while and aren't just some noob annoying the crap out of me with awful questions: your routine is great for someone who has been training for a really long time or an advanced bodybuilder that literally trains as a profession. For functional strength...and for most lay people people, or even athletes, powerlifters, etc...frequency is key, Not overtraining. Overtraining is doing three different types of chest exercises 3 times a week, that's overtraining.

With something like a full body you would hit your chest three times a week, but you don't tear it down down completely - you stimulate the muscle, and usually with different exercises.

But in any case, in order to perfect your bench (preferably with a powerlifting form), you should really concentrate on form, retracting your shoulder blades like malkore said, keeping your elbows tucked, and also strengthen all of the muscles that are recruited. Help out your shoulders with RC exercises, get some dips in there for your triceps, etc.
 
Interesting stuff. With the masses of opinions varying in general, let alone from site to site, i'm not sure what to do anymore heh. I found this routine some time ago, which is the one i mentioned that i used, and it seemed rather legitimate. I've been using it for a few months now...

Bodybuilding.com - Matt Danielsson - Intermediate's Bodybuilding Program!

Scroll down to the 4 day split and you should see what i do exercise-specifically, although i have modded a few things to incorporate more dumbells than barbells to even out my weaker left side in time.

If that routine is, like AJP said, NOT the best way for me (about a year lifting with 100% dedication) to go about it...grr? lol. It said its designed for people who have trained 6 months - 2 years, so i figured...hey, thats me.

I've done full body before, and its fun...LOTS of hard work...I just dont see how it would logically benefit more to be in there 3 hours a week for ALL muscles instead of a more focused 4 hour span.

Opinions, responses, etc much appreciated!
 
I think that routine is a load of crap, honestly.

A discrepancy that many people link with full body routines, especially when switching from split routines, is that you need to cram everything you would have done in a week into one workout - which needless to say - is absolutely incorrect. With a full body frequency is key, NOT tearing a muscle to shreds every time you workout. a Full body workout should only take an hour, maybe 1.5 hours.

This routine used to be in every other post a while back, but I would definitely read it well.

http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=508031
 
I considered that too, but i dont see any way it would change the barbell vs dumbbell part and NOT my entire bench score.

Regardless, here ya go:

Mon- Back, biceps
Tues- Shoulders, Calves, Abs
Wed- Rest
Thurs- Quads, Hamstrings
Fri- Chest, Triceps
Sat-Cardio/Rest
Sun-Cardio/Rest
Click to expand...

I think Shoulders are involved for the bench press and should be moved to Friday. Also I wanted to know how many reps, sets and what exercises you did. No disrespect, but that schedule sucks, you need to get a better one.
 
I HAVE been doing the split style for quite a while now, i suppose switching it up a full body might at least give me some feeling of accomplishment. I'll feel like a slacker only going 3x a week, but oh well :D

I've taken some time and planned out the exercises for a 6 week trial run of it...I have some major surgery after that, so 6 weeks is best i can test at the moment.

It looks like this...

Workout 1
Sets: 3
Reps: 5
Rest: 60 seconds between sets
Load: Approx. Failure on last rep of final set.

Dumbbell Bench Press
Pull Downs
Dumbbell Military Press
Squats
Deadlifts
Preacher Curls

Workout 2
Sets: 3
Reps: 8
Rest: 90 seconds between sets

Deadlifts
Squats
Dumbbell Military Press
Pull Downs
Dumbbell Bench Press
Glutes-Squat Machine

Workout 3
Sets: 2
Reps: 15
Rest: 120 seconds between sets

Dumbbell Military Press
Pull Downs
Squats
Dumbbell Bench Press
Deadlifts
Skullcrushers

Keeping those exercises for week 2, then switching them ALL to variants for weeks 3-4, and another switch for 5-6.

Does it look like i covered all the major muscle groups guys? AJP? =) Thanks!
 
Get some rows in there instead of the pulldowns. Bent over rows, pendlay rows, seated rows, db bent over rows, etc.

Also, switch up the types of presses. Military pressing three times a week is uncessary, it puts a TON of stress on your shoulders - which can quickly lead to injury especially without a lot of rotator cuff work in there.

You don't need flat bench every workout either.

Do some incline presses, for some workouts, in place of both flat bench and military press.

You have the right idea of almost all compound exercises, and all compounds before isolations.

If you are doing "real" squats (as in going pretty far down, parallel or lower) and conventional deadlifts, it's gonna be very tough to maintain that three times a week again. It may be better to put back squats with some romanian or stiff-legged deadlifts, and conventional deadlifts with front squats. Or doing just back squats one da, just conventional deadlifts another, and then front squats and romanian or stiff legged the last day.

Sorry if that's confusing, the point is that squatting and deadlifting, in the truest sense, three times a week is very tough.

It is coming along a lot better though.
 
Alright, I went through, learned a ton of new lifts in order to comply with your STRICT requirements :p and here is the new version! Changes have been made to Workouts 2 and 3 of the week mostly, keeping 1 primarily the same...

Workout 1
Sets: 3
Reps: 5
Rest: 60 seconds between sets
Load: Choose a weight that forces you to near-failure for the last rep of the last set.

Dumbbell Bench Press
Pull Downs
Dumbbell Military Press
Squats
Deadlifts
Preacher Curls
Abs- Variance

Workout 2
Sets: 3
Reps: 8
Rest: 90 seconds between sets

Sumo Deadlifts
Front Squats
(name unknown…Lying on stomach, raising hands horizontally—Replace Military press)
Bent over Rows
Incline Bench - Dumbbell
Glutes-Squat Machine
Seated Calf Presses

Workout 3
Sets: 2
Reps: 15
Rest: 120 seconds between sets

Barbell Military Press
Dumbell Rows
Hack Squats
Straight Barbell Bench Press
Good Mornings
Skullcrushers
Abs- Variance

Do i win at life?? *worried* Thanks AJP hehe
 
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