Am I gaining muscle?

[sooner]

Basic Question...

Am I gaining muscle (real lbs of muscle) or simple "awakening" existing muscle?

I see a lot of different information about muscle gain/loss during weight loss. I understand that fat doesn't turn into muscle, but I see alot of different information so it is pretty confusing.

Here is what I think is relevant background, let me know if anybody needs more information...

1. 30 y/o M. I am working on losing weight, and that is my primary goal. Have lost 35 lbs from 260 to 225 since early December.

2. I am tackling both diet and exercise at the same time.

3. For diet I eat an average of 1800-2000 cals a day, with some days a little higher or lower. I am not on any specific plan or food restrictions. Just generally eating smaller and more frequent portions and more healthy food. I work towards low-fat and low-refined carb (relatively) and high protein. I always get in over 100g of protein and probably average 150-170g a day.

4. I am working out 5-6 days a week, with a lot of variation, different weights and routines every day. My typical gym session is about 15 minutes of warm-up, 20-30 minutes of weights, and 30-60 minutes of cardio. Both weight and cadio are different every day, but do not follow a set pattern (at this point).

5. I am not doing a formal weight training program or doing weights in a way that is typically suggested to build muscle. I do not weight train to the point of failure, as right now being really sore is a demotivator for me. I will typically do 2 sets of 10-15 reps that gets pretty hard by the end. I will usually do 5-8 different machines or dumbbell exercises, with kettlebell or weighted ball moves some days. I am not currently following the typical pattern (i.e. arms one day, back one day, etc.) for muscle gain as that is not my primary goal. I plan on getting better at "proper" weight training over time, right now it's about habits of getting in workouts that are sustainable.

6. From the start of this process to today (about 8 weeks) I have seen the following changes... When I began I could only do about 5 pushups, now can do ~25-30. On most upper body machines I would start at 75-90 and now am doing the same reps at 125-140. On most dumbbell exercises I started out using 15-20 lbs and now am doing 25-35 same reps.

So I clearly am stronger than I was 8 weeks ago but I am wondering if I have actually gained lbs of muscle or simply improved/awoken existing muscle that was already there. Some people seem to say that you cannot gain muscle while in overall calorie defecit.

To be honest the answer doesn't really matter that much, it is more of a curiousity thing...would appreciate any input.

 

[KaraCooks]

Highly unlikely that you're gaining muscle - or at least not very much.

My summary answer is this:

1 - It's tough (bordering on impossible) to gain muscle while eating in a calorie deficit, unless you're VERY overweight and/or VERY out of shape to begin with.

2 - If you're specifically working towards gaining muscle (structured workouts and proper eating), you'll probably gain around 2lb per month on average - it would be highly unusual to gain more. And those are 1st year gains - during the 2nd year that drops by half, and in the 3rd year that drops by half again.

3 - You shouldn't be lifting weights every day anyway because that can actually reverse any gains. It's not the lifting that builds muscle - it's the recovery. If you don't allow time for recovery, you're not going to build muscle and you might go backwards.

4 - I realize you're not actively looking for muscle gains right now, but if you don't develop healthy and proper lifting habits now, you're going to be at a disadvantage later. Most people don't work muscles evenly and they focus on the visible muscles and ignore the underlying support muscles. You really need to work a proper routine NOW ... and it'll set the base for future workouts.

5 - You can build strength w/out building muscle - it's making the muscle you ahve more efficient. That's why you can see the increases in pushups, weights, etc. It doesn't mean you're gaining muscle mass - it just means that the muscle mass you have is becoming stronger.

There are two resources I highly recommend. One is on this board - it's a sticky post in the Exercise area written by Steve and it's called "The Conceptual Side of Weight Lifting". I STRONGLY recommend you read it - all the way through, even though it's long. Steve gives a lot of information on how to build a good routine and WHY you need to make sure your lifting is balanced.

The other one is this article by Lyle McDonald on genetic muscular potential. It explains some of the whys behind how fast you gain muscle:

 

[sooner]

Highly unlikely that you're gaining muscle - or at least not very much.

My summary answer is this:

1 - It's tough (bordering on impossible) to gain muscle while eating in a calorie deficit, unless you're VERY overweight and/or VERY out of shape to begin with.

2 - If you're specifically working towards gaining muscle (structured workouts and proper eating), you'll probably gain around 2lb per month on average - it would be highly unusual to gain more. And those are 1st year gains - during the 2nd year that drops by half, and in the 3rd year that drops by half again.

3 - You shouldn't be lifting weights every day anyway because that can actually reverse any gains. It's not the lifting that builds muscle - it's the recovery. If you don't allow time for recovery, you're not going to build muscle and you might go backwards.

4 - I realize you're not actively looking for muscle gains right now, but if you don't develop healthy and proper lifting habits now, you're going to be at a disadvantage later. Most people don't work muscles evenly and they focus on the visible muscles and ignore the underlying support muscles. You really need to work a proper routine NOW ... and it'll set the base for future workouts.

5 - You can build strength w/out building muscle - it's making the muscle you ahve more efficient. That's why you can see the increases in pushups, weights, etc. It doesn't mean you're gaining muscle mass - it just means that the muscle mass you have is becoming stronger.

There are two resources I highly recommend. One is on this board - it's a sticky post in the Exercise area written by Steve and it's called "The Conceptual Side of Weight Lifting". I STRONGLY recommend you read it - all the way through, even though it's long. Steve gives a lot of information on how to build a good routine and WHY you need to make sure your lifting is balanced.

The other one is this article by Lyle McDonald on genetic muscular potential. It explains some of the whys behind how fast you gain muscle:

Awesome, thanks for the quick response. Your points 1 and 5 were the answer that I was expecting.

I think to point 4 that is a real area of struggle for me. I do work hard toward correct form for any muscle exercise I do, and I do try to do lots of different things. But it is a huge struggle for me to think ahead and plan things out and go through a "list" at the gym. It takes the fun out of it for me at this point and makes me a lot less likely to go to the gym.

So my mental struggle is between the obvious truth of your point #4 (don't disagree with a single word), vs. the reality of trying to move from an overweight couch potato to a fit person in a way that is sustainable.

Although if it was easy I wouldn't have been an overweight couch potato in the first place

Thanks for the response and links

 

[KaraCooks]

So my mental struggle is between the obvious truth of your point #4 (don't disagree with a single word), vs. the reality of trying to move from an overweight couch potato to a fit person in a way that is sustainable.

I agree with this - but I"ll point out that most people who dont' understand how to properly build a routine are often overwhelmed and think that a "proper" routine would be prohibitively difficult or intense or require advanced skills or whatever.

When I learned proper lifting, I actually did LESS and was more motivated to go because I wsn't so overwhelmed. Read the sticky thread and you'll see that Steve's development of a routine involves something like 5 basic moves done 2-3x a week.

When you do it that way, it becomes a less intimidating workout with better full body results.

 

[cbsfitness]

Have to agree with Ms. Cooks: A full body work out 2-3x's/week consisting of multi joint exercises performed within 20-45 mins per session works extremely well. The sticky notes on exercise are well worth reading and the exercise technique descriptions are good. There are enough suggestions to build a full body workout with 5-8 exercises. Consistency over time will lead to sustainability.