[Squall];268470 said:
Ok, Your estimate of 12 calories per pound is equal to 2,496 calories. Now His BMR (Steve I know you hate that word) is about 2,000. If we were to GUESS his activity level was low we would multiply his BMR by about 1.2 which would equal 2400 calories. In which case is nearly identical to your style of estimation.
This does nothing but prove that the estimation I highlighed in my above post is accurate enough to use as a basic estimation. A starting point.
My point all along was this:
You were not taking into account activity. You are just now bringing it up. Same with the other thread. I don't care how you go about factoring in activity. I just think it needs to be factored in.
That info can come via questioning the individual, estimating, etc. You can make it very precise or you can use estimates. Either or is going to give you the same outcome in the end, which I will discuss in a moment.
Now again I am GUESSING him to be a somewhat sedentary person. In which case my guess leads me to about the same calorie estimation yours did.
Right, if you had done that from the beginning, I wouldn't have commented.
HOWEVER, What if he is not a sedentary person? What if he is a construction worker for instance. In which case we would BOTH be wrong.
No, I wouldn't be wrong. I don't make blanket recommendations, nor do I speak in absolute terms. I would have said something like....
"Assuming you are of average weight and average activity levels, a safe starting place would be 14-16 calories per pound for maintenance. This assumes you haven't been dieting in the past. If you are of above average weight, it might be wise to start with a lower figure, something like 12 calories per pound. If you are extremely active (which is unlikely) it might be wise to go a little above this estimation using something like 16-18 calories per pound. But we are not signing a contract here, remember. If you are overweight, start with 12-14. See where the weight heads every 2 weeks or so and adjust as needed."
And based on the amount of people I've helped in the past.... I've got a good knack for figuring out a good, estimated starting point.
This factors in averages. I speak on averages b/c it is impossible to get into the nitty gritty with every single person. And even if you do, you don't know what is going on with the physiology of the person. Someone can have low thryoid output, or something of that nature.... and they don't even know it. There is absolutely no point to speak absolutes or even to get into the nitty gritty details.
It’s cleaner and easier to work off the estimates I speak of and explain to them how to utilize them.
This is all “secondary convo” though since all I’ve ever debated from the beginning is the use of BMR as a starting point for calculating a deficit. NOT how you go about collecting data to determine maintenance.
Are you suggesting that since we don't know his exact information, it is better to base everything off of BMR? I know you claim you weren't doing that in this thread, but you certainly were in the other.
My point is until we know his activity level,nutrition,exercise level. We CAN'T give an fully reliable guess.
Right, but I feel like you are moving the goal posts at this point. My argument from the very beginning, which starts in that other thread is this:
YOU CAN’T USE BMR AS THE STARTING POINT FOR CALCULATING THE DEFICIT.
Right?
Now you are debating the efficacy of detailed data collection. What does that have to do with my position, which has never changed I might add. I still stand by my original statement, capitalized above.
To comment on this secondary convo one more time:
Will gathering all kinds of details about an individual give you a more accurate starting maintenance level?
Certainly.
But a starting place is a moment in time. Spending so much time on the starting place is futile IMO. I’ve worked hands on with many people. Bring Internet work into the equation and the numbers are even higher…. a lot.
I can say with confidence that estimating maintenance, especially in this type of atmosphere (forum) is the easiest “play.” Find a published strength coach who has his own forum and he (or she) will do the same thing.
If estimates don’t work, then I would certainly start going into the nitty gritty with the individual to try and figure out what’s going on. But time is of the essence and knowing that the averages will work for MOST individuals…. optimizing my time, as well as their's, works.
But again, this is all “secondary conversation. All of my comments before this post were in reference to where your goal posts originally stood.
I've been talking with reference to your statements in this post, as well as the other. I feel bad for that since we are hijacking.... but I am sure people are learning from this.... so it's not all bad.
