Bigger Biceps/Arms: Full Body Exercises or Isolated Curls?

BigTomW said:
Well exactly,

Of course you need to do isolation in addition to get maximum bicep development. All top BB's do, infact i bet ALL BB's do.

Thats enough said in itself isn't it really :D
Click to expand...

No.....:)

Not, if you are talking a steroid induced BB'er, what applies to them doesn't apply to a natural, and to even think about following a program designed for them with their steroid induced improved recovery, etc, etc, is not smart.

Good morning Biggie-T........sup?

Hope your day goes well! :)

Chillen
 
ask natural bodybuilders then.
 
Karky said:
where in the movement will the biceps take all the load? the biceps can't extend the shoulder joint, which is needed in a chin or pullup.

And yes, 85% of 1rm will usually engange all the fibers that you can activate, but that doesn't mean the muscle is contracting with maximal force, as you have rate coding to consider aswell.

Are you saying an 85% of 1rm deadlift will recruit all your biceps fibers? the biceps isn't THAT involved in deadlifting..

I'm not saying chins and pullups aren't the way to go to get big arms, I just don't agree that doing isolation exercises in addition can't help.
Click to expand...

gymnasts/powerlifters never do curls but take a look at there bis,how do you account for that.

also i never said dont do curls obviously any muscle that is trained will grow,but if i was to start a begginer i wouldnt add bis/tris to his routine untill he reached a platue in arm growth.
and karky you dont believe the bicep is involved in a deadlift:confused4: it certainly is in a chin/pulldown/b-o-r etc etc
 
The Effect of Supplemental Isolated Weight-Training Exercises on Upper-Arm Size and Upper-Body Strength

RA Rogers, RU Newton, KP McEvoy, EM Popper, BK Doan, JK Shim, LR Bolt, JSVolek, and WJ Kraemer.

Journal of Strength & Conditioning Research, 14(3)3, Aug 2000 (p369)

The aim of this study was to examine the hypothesized additional
training effect of programming isolated supplemental exercises in
conjunction with compound weight-training exercises on muscle size and strength. Seventeen national-level baseball players volunteered to partite in this 10-week training study and were randomly divided into 2 groups. The control group completed a 10-week training program consisting of the bench press, lat pull-down, dumbbell incline press and dumbbell 1-arm row exercises. The treatment group completed the same training program but with the addition of biceps curl and triceps extension exercises. A tape measure was used to record upper-arm cirferences, and a 5 repetition maximum (5RM) was determined on the bench press and lat pull-down for each subject before and after training.

Both the treatment and control groups displa significant increases in upper-arm cirference (6.6 and 6.5%, respectively), 5RM bench press (21.4 and 22.1%, respectively) and 5RM lat pull-down (15.7 and 14.5%, respectively). There were no significant differences between the groups in the percentage change before and after training. The findings of this study suggest that isolation exercises are not necessary in order to increase compound movement strength or increase upper-arm girth. These findings also suggest that strength coaches can save time by not including isolation exercises and still achieve increases in strength and size.
 
10 weeks study won't be able to tell small differences, at least not with statistical significance.

About the gymnasts, like I said, pullups and chins will make your biceps grow, I never said they didn't. I just said that I don't see what's wrong with adding additional arm isolation. Without being able to find and read the entire study I can't really comment much more on it. But I do feel like you're twisting my words. Nothing I had ever said in this thread would suggest that gymnasts shouldn't have big arms.

also, I'm not able to find any other studies on the same subject.
 
Last edited:
I find it odd how you guys are arguing a point that is individual. What works for one may not work for another. There is not best method. There are different methods. IMO the answer is to workout, put in some time and find at works for YOU.
 
tenpercent said:
I find it odd how you guys are arguing a point that is individual. What works for one may not work for another. There is not best method. There are different methods. IMO the answer is to workout, put in some time and find at works for YOU.
Click to expand...

very true, it is very individual.
 
tenpercent said:
I find it odd how you guys are arguing a point that is individual. What works for one may not work for another. There is not best method. There are different methods. IMO the answer is to workout, put in some time and find at works for YOU.
Click to expand...
No one is taking into consideration the state of the OP peel. Have you seen peel's routine? No! Then the rest of the discussion is academic mumbo jumbo.

Most of these guys "arguing" (as you call it) have been training for 5+/7+ years and what works for them is not what will work for a noob or the typical uneducated gym rat. In a typical gym biceps and chest are "prioritised" by many to the detriment of other muscle groups.
 
blackbeard said:
No one is taking into consideration the state of the OP peel. Have you seen peel's routine? No! Then the rest of the discussion is academic mumbo jumbo.

Most of these guys "arguing" (as you call it) have been training for 5+/7+ years and what works for them is not what will work for a noob or the typical uneducated gym rat. In a typical gym biceps and chest are "prioritised" by many to the detriment of other muscle groups.
Click to expand...

Exactly. And that is where the old "Everything works, nothing works forever" comes into play. :)
 
Karky said:
10 weeks study won't be able to tell small differences, at least not with statistical significance.

About the gymnasts, like I said, pullups and chins will make your biceps grow, I never said they didn't. I just said that I don't see what's wrong with adding additional arm isolation. Without being able to find and read the entire study I can't really comment much more on it. But I do feel like you're twisting my words. Nothing I had ever said in this thread would suggest that gymnasts shouldn't have big arms.

also, I'm not able to find any other studies on the same subject.
Click to expand...

karky i didnt intend to twist your words,my point in using gymnasts as an example is,you dont need to do curls to build big bis,infact most studies and empirical evidence show that big bis can be built without using curls at all,as i said before muscle growth is systemic,not localized.
if anyone wants to do curls there is certainly nothing wrong with but IMO its just burning more cals and isnt going to build more muscle than say chins/rows etc infact it can be overkill in a routine.
 
Chillen said:
No.....:)

Not, if you are talking a steroid induced BB'er, what applies to them doesn't apply to a natural, and to even think about following a program designed for them with their steroid induced improved recovery, etc, etc, is not smart.

Good morning Biggie-T........sup?

Hope your day goes well! :)

Chillen
Click to expand...

I know exactly what your saying Chillen ;)

But still, why would they do isolation curls? If curls didn't help get maximum bicep development, then wouldn't they just carry on doing more rows, pullups etc?
 
I agree with the first part, you can grow big biceps without curls, but I think that for a lot of people it will be faster if you include some direct arm work, though this would probably depend on the amount of volume the bis and tris got from compound exercises.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top