Knife fighting
- Thread starter Ryofire
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One of my favorite things in karate is knife dissarms which is one of my specialtys when doing defense attacks also known as ippon/sanbon as its called in are school. When I can I will try and take pictures on how to do some of the basics from the stomach as well as to the throat. I have done knive dissarms for around 3 or 4 years of training.
The worst thing you can do is try to tackle the person. Other than that just do what they do in movies; divert their attention and than dive for their hand with the knife in it lol.
Streamline said:
Not nesscarly. Even though they have a wepon I would prefer to bring them on the ground after the dissarm so that way you got a better chance of escape because think about it, if you take a knife don't want to stab him and just run off the person will be thinking hey thats mine what are you doing with my wepon in other words they may get more angry and would sense right away you may not be tough enough to use it or run away showing your back to the person which would cause for behind shot beating. As for bringing them to the ground you know they know that you can and will do damage... but to save all that time you could just dissarm and go down and slice the knee from behind knowing you mean bussiness which is my recomendation.
ferari860 said:
If you tackle someone that's holding a knife you'd wanna do it real fast because your entire back is exposed while they can just stab you right in the back...you're pretty fkt then. And even if you do get them to the ground they can just stab you in the face...or anywhere really.
Well, here's the way I've been taught.
We do weapons practice in aikido, and the techniques are often very similar to recieving an empty hands attack - almost identical, really. The emphasis and focus changes slightly, as their destructive potential is increased and their appendages no longer terminate at the ends of their fingers (or toes, I guess, if they have a knife sticking out of their shoe). And of course you want to try to control them so that you are knicked and cut as little as possible. But we're encouraged to treat uke like they have a weapon durring empty hands practice, and to move like we're empty handed when we practice with weapons. This will help to teach you respect for any given person's potential power and deadliness. Rember, you're not fighting and defeating the weapon, you're fighting a person.
Now, if someone attacks you with a knife, LeiYunFat is right, you will almost certainly be cut. But that's not necessarily a big deal. There's a world of difference between a superficial slash (which would include something like a big ol' gash across the thigh) and having a part of your body impaled, or recieving a deep, focused, gruesome cut across your neck or something. Much of aikido is based on your attacker being comitted and focused enough to make them actually dangerous. If they're not, thwarting the attack is simple, even if they have a knife. Imagine some crazy idiot four year old girl coming at you swinging a knife around. Not all that scary, eh? In order to prompt a defense from you that requires more than a side step and an eye gouge, the attacker has got to be presenting a mortal danger to you.
Granted, this is much easier for them if they have a weapon. But the same basic concepts still apply. You're their target - probably a specific part of your body. Don't be occupying the space where the power of their attack is when the attack gets there. Redirect the energy that they had to use to penetrate the perimiter of your inate defenses and keep them off balance. No balance, no power, very little danger. If they're armed, disarm or destroy them. Don't mess around with that.
All that having been said, the inescapable truth of fighting is that someone willing to sacrifice their body for just a CHANCE to hurt you is very dangerous, deadly if they have a knife. There's no defense against being stabbed completely by surprise. Fear anybody with a gun. You can't dodge bullets, you know.
We do weapons practice in aikido, and the techniques are often very similar to recieving an empty hands attack - almost identical, really. The emphasis and focus changes slightly, as their destructive potential is increased and their appendages no longer terminate at the ends of their fingers (or toes, I guess, if they have a knife sticking out of their shoe). And of course you want to try to control them so that you are knicked and cut as little as possible. But we're encouraged to treat uke like they have a weapon durring empty hands practice, and to move like we're empty handed when we practice with weapons. This will help to teach you respect for any given person's potential power and deadliness. Rember, you're not fighting and defeating the weapon, you're fighting a person.
Now, if someone attacks you with a knife, LeiYunFat is right, you will almost certainly be cut. But that's not necessarily a big deal. There's a world of difference between a superficial slash (which would include something like a big ol' gash across the thigh) and having a part of your body impaled, or recieving a deep, focused, gruesome cut across your neck or something. Much of aikido is based on your attacker being comitted and focused enough to make them actually dangerous. If they're not, thwarting the attack is simple, even if they have a knife. Imagine some crazy idiot four year old girl coming at you swinging a knife around. Not all that scary, eh? In order to prompt a defense from you that requires more than a side step and an eye gouge, the attacker has got to be presenting a mortal danger to you.
Granted, this is much easier for them if they have a weapon. But the same basic concepts still apply. You're their target - probably a specific part of your body. Don't be occupying the space where the power of their attack is when the attack gets there. Redirect the energy that they had to use to penetrate the perimiter of your inate defenses and keep them off balance. No balance, no power, very little danger. If they're armed, disarm or destroy them. Don't mess around with that.
All that having been said, the inescapable truth of fighting is that someone willing to sacrifice their body for just a CHANCE to hurt you is very dangerous, deadly if they have a knife. There's no defense against being stabbed completely by surprise. Fear anybody with a gun. You can't dodge bullets, you know.
If you want a good book, look out for a book called 'knife fighting in foulstan prison' (or similartitle) by Marc 'animal' Macyoung - to say its a book is a lie, its only about 12 pages, but if that doesn't scare you about how easy it is to get killed by a knife nothing will. 
It one of the few knife fighting books I've read that don't spend 3 chapters telling you how to hold a knife - but goes straight for the heart (literally).
My teenage daughter could 'take me out' with a practice knife virtually everytime, after only about 15mins practice, with the foundations of whats taught there. So I'd hate to see what a 16 stone homocidal nutter could do
Tony
It one of the few knife fighting books I've read that don't spend 3 chapters telling you how to hold a knife - but goes straight for the heart (literally).
My teenage daughter could 'take me out' with a practice knife virtually everytime, after only about 15mins practice, with the foundations of whats taught there. So I'd hate to see what a 16 stone homocidal nutter could do
Tony
Hey all!
If one just cosiders real life senario - the assailant is most likely not going to come at you in a martial art sort of manner. Very often one doesn't even know the assailant has a blade. If some one comes at you flashing a big shiny blade around - chances are that firstly they don't know how to use it and secondly they're not confident enough to come at you with their bare hands.
If someone wants to hurt you he'll walk up to you with the blade concealed and when passing you he'll just slip the tip into a vital spot - goodnight. No fancy take downs and grappling stunts. A knife fight is not like sparring in any way. When I look at these MA books they make it look so easy - quite amusing really. Not insulting anyone but its really not like a sparring session.
If one just cosiders real life senario - the assailant is most likely not going to come at you in a martial art sort of manner. Very often one doesn't even know the assailant has a blade. If some one comes at you flashing a big shiny blade around - chances are that firstly they don't know how to use it and secondly they're not confident enough to come at you with their bare hands.
If someone wants to hurt you he'll walk up to you with the blade concealed and when passing you he'll just slip the tip into a vital spot - goodnight. No fancy take downs and grappling stunts. A knife fight is not like sparring in any way. When I look at these MA books they make it look so easy - quite amusing really. Not insulting anyone but its really not like a sparring session.
If anyone wants to stand a chance in 90% of knife assualts one needs to carry a blade of their own. A knife fight is over in 2, maybe 3 actions. Its not like in the movies when a bloke gets slashed across the face then the arm then a stab in the quad, gets mad and finishes off the oponent.
A knife fight isn't really a fight at all its a bloodbath - either person A or B will get cut. Unless you're dealing with a drunked or a druggy that are high at the time and can't see straight.
With a sound knowledge of the human anatomy and a quick, accurate hand one can incapasitate without killing an opponent. There are a number of major nueral pathways that need just be severed causing near total loss of ones control of the limb. Also by simply severing a tendon one can have a puppet show. Example the Tricep extens the elbow - most stabbing motions require a quick elbow extension. No Tricep - no extending - no stabbing. Makes it almost fun.
scenario 1 - A fight consists of stage 1: person A attacks
Stage 2:a stabbing/slashing or
scenario 2 - stage 1: person A attacks
stage 2: person B avoids/deflects and attacks
stage 3: a stabbing/slashing
Notice - its cut or be cut. You can only avoid/deflect and ATTACK if you have your own blade. Therefore carry your blade in a accesible spot. Know which muscles control which actions. Don't get hit - and be quick on the comeback!
A knife fight isn't really a fight at all its a bloodbath - either person A or B will get cut. Unless you're dealing with a drunked or a druggy that are high at the time and can't see straight.
With a sound knowledge of the human anatomy and a quick, accurate hand one can incapasitate without killing an opponent. There are a number of major nueral pathways that need just be severed causing near total loss of ones control of the limb. Also by simply severing a tendon one can have a puppet show. Example the Tricep extens the elbow - most stabbing motions require a quick elbow extension. No Tricep - no extending - no stabbing. Makes it almost fun.
scenario 1 - A fight consists of stage 1: person A attacks
Stage 2:a stabbing/slashing or
scenario 2 - stage 1: person A attacks
stage 2: person B avoids/deflects and attacks
stage 3: a stabbing/slashing
Notice - its cut or be cut. You can only avoid/deflect and ATTACK if you have your own blade. Therefore carry your blade in a accesible spot. Know which muscles control which actions. Don't get hit - and be quick on the comeback!
You can defend yourself against a knife even if you're not armed...but it needs training. I get the marines have special training for that (and fighting knives wish knives)...the basic advice I could give is not to fight the knife but the hand that holds the knife...try to disarm your enemy and then fight on equal grounds...I guess Ai ki do should be helpful for that.
Ai-Ki-DO
Ai-Ki-DO
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Only ever been in a knife confrontation once. I aimed for a major artery but severed the median nerve instead. After which I still transported him to the hospital. He layed charges against me but I was acquited on grounds of Self Defense.
Razor sharp blades is the name of the game! The only thing a blunt blade is good for is stabbing! Stabbing is either going to do nothing or kill the assailant - you want neither of those to situations!
I own a couple of knives - spend 'quality time' sharpening and maintaining them! One can get knives capable of severing more than tendon. Ofcourse they cost a pretty penny but they are beautiful tools. One needs to have a special knife, you need to know the feel of it and the weight of both the handle and the blade. Not saying anyone should be stupid enough to go looking for a fight to practice Slicing someone though! Just good to have a 'feel' for your tools - don't want to end up cutting yourself!
Razor sharp blades is the name of the game! The only thing a blunt blade is good for is stabbing! Stabbing is either going to do nothing or kill the assailant - you want neither of those to situations!
I own a couple of knives - spend 'quality time' sharpening and maintaining them! One can get knives capable of severing more than tendon. Ofcourse they cost a pretty penny but they are beautiful tools. One needs to have a special knife, you need to know the feel of it and the weight of both the handle and the blade. Not saying anyone should be stupid enough to go looking for a fight to practice Slicing someone though! Just good to have a 'feel' for your tools - don't want to end up cutting yourself!