sprinting or distance?

ok... perhaps... but my point is this... I was called out for negative rep... and my point was my opinion WAS based on scientific research...

That being said most of the opinions I hear on weight loss are based on some distorted version or the truth after a crazy version of the telephone game occurs with the truth...

So being a man of science... I am willing to believe that perhaps there is more recent research that will show the old research to be flawed... or that since more research has been done the statistics ARE statistically significant...

So if you have research you base your opinions on present them so I may learn...

(tongue in cheek...) or simply admit that I did do the research and your opinions are based on hear say... even if your hear say is based on hear say that is from the last 10 years.

Boy I hope you have something good... because I wouldn't want another overweight slob like me to have to go through all that changing of my diet to loose weight... it was hard work to loose net 92 lbs and over 120 lbs (if you count the weight I lost after I gained back). From 44 inch waist to 33 inches!
 
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BTW I am serious... I love this stuff... I really hope you have something to show me... I hope I am wrong... and thank in advance.
 
just to be clear what i am saying is that there is no way just dieting is better than exercise and dieting combined and HIIT is more efficient than slow sustained cardio
 
just to get you started on "diet vs exercise and diet"

Exercise Helps Control Type 2 Diabetes

Reuters Health

By Charnicia E. Huggins

Thursday, March 24, 2005

NEW YORK (Reuters Health) - Regular exercise among women with type 2 diabetes may not only reduce waist size, but may also reduce the amount of visceral fat surrounding organs in the abdomen -- the type of fat known to be associated with insulin resistance, a study shows.

"Exercise needs to be part of the prescription" for controlling type 2 diabetes, study author Dr. Jill A. Kanaley of Syracuse University in upstate New York told Reuters Health. "You want to reduce that visceral fat because you want all the health benefits that come with it," she said.

Previous studies have shown that the accumulation of fat around the organs results in higher levels of free fatty acids and consequent disturbances in glycemic control, since free fatty acids are known to influence the release of insulin from the pancreas. Although researchers have found that weight loss, or exercise without weight loss, can help reduce abdominal fat and improve one's sensitivity to insulin, such research did not include men and women with type 2 diabetes, whose bodies may respond differently to diet and exercise.

In the current study, Kanaley and her team divided 33 postmenopausal women with type 2 diabetes into one of three study groups. One group followed a high monounsaturated fat diet, the second group did not diet, but participated in a regular walking program with occasional bicycling, and the third group both dieted and exercised.

By the end of the 14-week study period, women who dieted and those who dieted and exercised experienced similar weight loss -- about 10 pounds -- and similar reductions in total body fat. Those who exercised without dieting experienced little weight loss -- less than five pounds -- and a much smaller reduction in body fat, Kanaley and her team report in this month's issue of the Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism.

Women in all three groups experienced changes in the distribution of fat around their abdomen, however, reducing their waist circumference by about 4 centimeters, the report indicates.

Women who dieted, with or without exercise, reduced their total abdominal fat and subcutaneous fat -- the fat that sits just under the skin, but not their visceral fat, while those who exercised, with or without dieting, were able to reduce the amount of fat tucked in around their organs. Those who dieted and exercised decreased their total abdominal fat as well as the fat under the skin and around the organs.

In fact, the researchers note, exercise reduced fat in all three areas, even when the exercisers did not experience any significant weight loss.

"The beauty of it is they didn't lose much weight at all and they got the benefits," Kanaley said.

Women in all three groups experienced an approximate 44 percent increase in insulin sensitivity -- they became more efficient processors of blood sugar, the researchers note.

Altogether, the findings show that although modest weight loss, either through diet alone or diet and exercise leads to improvements in total abdominal fat, subcutaneous fat, and glycemic status, exercise is needed to reduce visceral fat, the researchers conclude.

"As important as the diet is, the exercise is also important," Kanaley said, adding that women with type 2 diabetes should "get out and exercise."

SOURCE: Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism, March 2005
 
this might seem contrary but i also found something to back up your argument .....but notice the date again
Donnelly JE, Jacobsen DJ, Jakicic JM, Whatley JE
Very low calorie diet with concurrent versus delayed and sequential exercise. [Clinical Trial, Controlled Clinical Trial, Journal Article, Research Support, Non-U.S. Gov't ]
Int J Obes Relat Metab Disord 1994 Jul; 18(7) :469-75.


Obese females undergoing very-low-calorie diet (VLCD) were studied for 12 weeks to determine the effects of concurrent vs delayed and sequential exercise. Subjects were assigned to one of six groups: control (C) n = 28; endurance exercise (EE) n = 18; weight training (WT) n = 26; endurance exercise plus weight training (EEWT) n = 21; control for 4 weeks with subsequent EE (C4EE) n = 10; WT for 4 weeks with sequential EE (WT4EE) n = 12. EE was performed 3 days a week using five weight lifting exercises. Loss in body weight did not differ between groups. Expressed as a ratio of fat-free mass (FFM) to weight loss WT4EE showed a 8.1%, 9.7%, and 11.4% difference compared to EE, C4EE, and C, respectively (P < 0.05). WT4EE also showed significant increases from baseline of 8.2% in aerobic capacity (L/min) and 12.5% in the strength index (SI/kg FFM). WT4EE showed the smallest decrease of all groups in resting metabolic rate of 6.1% of the baseline value; however, this decrease was significant. Although WT4EE showed some favorable changes from baseline, the magnitude of the changes between groups was small. There were no significant differences found between C4EE and the other study groups. Thus, the delay or sequential use of exercise during VLCD provided only small differences for WT4EE compared to the other groups and any clinical significance for the individual is presently unknown.

i am not done till you are satisfied
 
American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, Vol. 73, No. 3, 523-531, March 2001
© 2001 American Society for Clinical Nutrition
Original Research Communication
Short-term effects of weight loss with or without low-intensity exercise training on fat metabolism in obese men1,2,3
Dorien PC van Aggel-Leijssen, Wim HM Saris, Gabby B Hul and Marleen A van Baak

1 From the Nutrition, Toxicology, and Environmental Research Institute (NUTRIM), Department of Human Biology, Maastricht University, Maastricht, Netherlands.

Background: Energy restriction is known to induce a decline in fat oxidation during the postdiet period. Reduced fat oxidation may contribute to weight regain.---another point that i made about keeping it off----

Objective: The present study investigated the effect of the addition of low-intensity exercise training to energy restriction on postdiet fat oxidation and on the contribution of the sympathetic nervous system to fat oxidation.

Design: Forty obese men were divided randomly into 2 groups: diet (D) and diet plus exercise (DE). Both groups followed an energy restriction program for 10 wk. Subjects in the DE group also participated in a low-intensity exercise training program [40% maximal oxygen uptake (O2max)] for 12 wk. Before the intervention and after 12 wk, with subjects at stable body weights, we measured body composition, O2max, and substrate oxidation at rest, during exercise at 50% O2max, and during recovery. Measurements were made with and without administration of the ß-adrenergic antagonist propranolol.

Results: Both interventions led to significant decreases in body weight, fat mass, and fat-free mass (P < 0.001); these decreases did not differ significantly between the D and DE groups. Neither intervention significantly affected O2max. The effect of the intervention on the respiratory exchange ratio differed significantly between the D and DE groups [two-way analysis of variance (ANOVA), P < 0.05]. The effect on the ß-adrenergic-mediated respiratory exchange ratio tended to be different between the 2 groups (two-way ANOVA, P = 0.09).

Conclusion: Addition of low-intensity exercise training to energy restriction counteracts the decline in fat oxidation during the postdiet period.

as it has been pointed out to me by a master level trainer at ISSA the research that you are doing and i am searching for is on short term responses and what needs to be really considered is the long term lifestyle change to prevent an unhealthy and possibly shortened life with that being said on monday i will be receiving the links necessary to back up what i have said if you are not already satisfied.....so till then keep up the good work and continue to educate yourself no matter what anyone says:beerchug: i have enjoyed this and look foreward to monday because i am not on a computer on the weekends
 
good stuff yoda... I'll give it a few more reads... I especially liked the stuff about type 2 diabetes!

One point you made I would like to second... the point about short term fixes vs life style changes... I totally agree!

I am not knocking exercise... it rocks!

I do not want to say diet is equal or better than diet vs excercise...

I only want to say that in terms of shedding fat... diet is most of the equation...

as for keeping the weight off... etc... etc... not debating that... but very much interested in the effects of dieting on fat oxidation... I think I would like to dig into that topic some more...
 
My brain is excited... one more quick post and I have to get back to work... I wonder if the effects of dieting on reduced fat oxidation have anything to do with reduced fat consumption... on many diets... if that is a reduced fat diet thing... high carb low fat... etc...

anyways back to work... and by the way... you feel much better if you exercise... enough said in my book... and I have enjoyed this as well..
 
i have just recieved some more research from a fellow ISSA trainer that you might find interesting here it is
Schuenke MD, Mikat RP, McBride JM.

Effect of an acute period of resistance exercise on excess post-exercise oxygen consumption: implications for body mass management. Eur J Appl Physiol. 2002 Mar;86(5):411-7. Epub 2002 Jan 29. Kramer, Volek et al.

Influence of exercise training on physiological and performance changes with weight loss in men.

Med. Sci. Sports Exerc., Vol. 31, No. 9, pp. 1320-1329, 1999.

Overweight subjects were assigned to three groups: diet-only, diet plus aerobics, diet plus aerobics and weights. The diet group lost 14.6 pounds of fat in 12 weeks. The aerobic group lost only one more pound (15.6 pounds) than the diet group (training was three times a week starting at 30 minutes and progressing to 50 minutes over the 12 weeks).

The weight training group lost 21.1 pounds of fat (44% and 35% more than diet and aerobic only groups respectively). Basically, the addition of aerobic training didn't result in any real world significant fat loss over dieting alone.

Thirty-six sessions of up to 50 minutes is a lot of work for one additional pound of fat loss. However, the addition of resistance training greatly accelerated fat loss results.

Bryner RW, Ullrich IH, Sauers J, Donley D, Hornsby G, Kolar M, Yeater R.

Effects of resistance vs. aerobic training combined with an 800 calorie liquid diet on lean body mass and resting metabolic rate. J Am Coll Nutr. 1999 Apr;18(2):115-21.

The aerobic group performed four hours of aerobics per week. The resistance training group performed 2-4 sets of 8-15 reps, 10 exercises, three times per week.

V02 max increased equally in both groups. Both groups lost weight. The resistance training group lost significantly more fat and didn't lose any LBM, even at only 800 calories per day. (The reason the calories were so low was to really take any dietary variables completely out of the equation and compare the effects of the exercise regime on LBM and metabolism.)

The resistance training group actually increased metabolism compared to the aerobic group, which decreased metabolism. It seems that resistance training is a more significant stress to the body than a starvation diet.

Tremblay A, Simoneau JA, Bouchard C.

Impact of exercise intensity on body fatness and skeletal muscle metabolism. Metabolism. 1994 Jul;43(7):814-8

This study pitted 20 weeks of endurance training against 15 weeks of interval training:

Energy cost of endurance training = 28661 calories. Energy cost of interval training = 13614 calories (less than half)

The interval training group showed a nine times greater loss in subcutaneous fat than the endurance group (when corrected for energy cost).

Read that again. Calorie for calorie, the interval training group lost nine times more fat overall. Why? Maybe it's EPOC, an upregulation of fat burning enzyme activity, or straight up G-Flux. I don't care. I'm a real world guy. If the interval training group had lost the same fat as the endurance group, we'd get the same results in less time. That means interval training is a better tool in your fat loss arsenal."

From Alwyn Cosgrove's article, Heirarchy of Fat Loss TESTOSTERONE NATION
just some more food for thought
 
Impact of exercise intensity on body fatness and skeletal muscle metabolism. Metabolism. 1994 Jul;43(7):814-8

can you get more details on that... I don't see the data... and the claims are pretty wild... and the data that is there is worded such that is is misleading... although the "(less than half)" may have been your comment... and the 9 times more effective... thing... is that because of time equivelant adjustment or equivelent energy expendature... I would like to see the data and the calculations not the conclusions...
 
akyoda32 said:
From Alwyn Cosgrove's article, Heirarchy of Fat Loss TESTOSTERONE NATION
Click to expand...
not my words just the words of a well respected leader in the fitness industry
here is a link to a good read Terracotta's Nutrition and fitness Page - High Intensity Interval Training on HIIT:boxing_smiley: LOL
 
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