Bulking w/o Getting Fat?

R

Rakoczy

0
I'm new to lifting, but I've ordered Schuler's New Rules to Lifting and a couple other weight training books, they haven't come yet. So, please, don't think I'm just too lazy so I post instead of trying to find it.

From what it's been defined as so far in this forum, it seems that when you bulk, you get fat. Right now I'm 5'11'', 16 years old, and about 135lbs., so I'm pretty skinny and I don't have much fat on me. But I also don't have much muscle. I also play a lot of Ultimate frisbee, and to excel in that sport you need to have lots of endurance and high burst speed.

So, I want to try and get into better shape with more muscle to have more powerful sprints, higher jumps, etc., but I cannot afford to get fat. The frisbee league opens up again in the spring, and I'd like to witness some results, though I don't expect to be reincarnated as the epitome of fitness, by then.

Is it possible to gain muscle mass w/o also getting fat? I have pretty good nutrition and keep up to date with that, so at least I have that going for me. Any constructive responses are welcome.
 
Why exactly can't you afford to gain fat? Moreso, if you are really skinny as is, how is a little fat going to kill you? If you are gaining fat bulking for muscle before a cut, then you aren't just sitting around becoming unhealthy and fat. There's a difference.
 
Rakoczy said:
I'm new to lifting, but I've ordered Schuler's New Rules to Lifting and a couple other weight training books, they haven't come yet. So, please, don't think I'm just too lazy so I post instead of trying to find it.

From what it's been defined as so far in this forum, it seems that when you bulk, you get fat. Right now I'm 5'11'', 16 years old, and about 135lbs., so I'm pretty skinny and I don't have much fat on me. But I also don't have much muscle. I also play a lot of Ultimate frisbee, and to excel in that sport you need to have lots of endurance and high burst speed.

So, I want to try and get into better shape with more muscle to have more powerful sprints, higher jumps, etc., but I cannot afford to get fat. The frisbee league opens up again in the spring, and I'd like to witness some results, though I don't expect to be reincarnated as the epitome of fitness, by then.

Is it possible to gain muscle mass w/o also getting fat? I have pretty good nutrition and keep up to date with that, so at least I have that going for me. Any constructive responses are welcome.
Click to expand...

clean bulk
 
wow that was a great article. What's with a bunch of people on this website saying that one can gain 2 lean pounds of muscle every week?!
 
Gaining muscle while losing fat: The Newbie effect

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Ok, since this seems to come up with some regularity, here are my thoughts on it. I had made a post to mfw a long time bck but it's faster to just retype it here than try to dig through google groups.

The basic question that continues to come up is "How come newbies can gain muscle and lose fat but more advanced guys can't."

First and foremost, I want to point out that only fat newbies can accomplish this, lean guys are not going to lean out significantly while gaining muscle. And I think this points us partly in the right direction.

Way back when, when I first got on the track of leptin (oh, about 98 I think), a lot of what leptin was doing (and note that leptin is related to bodyfat levels) seemed to explain at least part of this. Leptin turned out to be the big missing middle puzzle piece that I"d been looking for for about 10 years.

So consider a fat untrained individual. Because of all of the bodyfat they are carrying, there are a bunch of adapations that have occurred which, given the right stimulus, is going to make them *more effectively* mobilize fat for fuel. I know I"ve discussed this before but now expect a zillion and one questions.

But when you look at that actual adaptations in terms of whole body (especially fat cell) insulin resistance, it's clear that they occur in an attempt to limit further fat gain/help with fat loss once the excess calories are removed. The fat cells are resistant to insulin (meaning insulin can't be anti-lipolytic) leptin would be limiting food intake if the brain weren't resistant, leptin is trying to push fatty acid oxidation (except that muscle is alos resistant), there are tons of fatty acids n the bloodstream just waiting to be burned, &c. So even in the face of high insulin or whatever, fatty acids can be mobilize for fuel.

Read that last sentence again, especially given the role of insulin in muscle growth.

So I think that's the first part of the story. The body is primed to use a lot of fat for fuel under those conditions. Going back to 98, this is actually what led me to leptin, trying to figure out why fatter people can lose fat with less LBM loss compared to lean. So I started looking at the differences physiologically in fat people vs. lean people. And kept coming back to leptin (which I'd been deliberately ignoring for years). Which turns out to be part (but certainly not the entire picture). But I digress.

But it's not the whole story. The other part of it and at this point I get way off into speculation land I think has to do with being relatively more untrained. Everybody knows that beginners respond better to training than anybody else. Primarily because they are so far from their genetic potential. They have more 'room to grow' to put it one way. This is true of everything, first year of any training is when you will make the most massive gains, unless you're training is retarded. And as you get closer to your genetic limits, things start to level off and you reach an asymptote.

And I think that the two factors together are what allow it to happen.

You're in a situation where
a. muscle can be gained quite easily
b. fat can be lost quite easily

Because both are so far below (in the case of muscle) or above (in the case of fat) genetic limits. That's on top of all the hormonal/energetic stuff going on when you're fat. The body is trying to push fatty acids away from storage and towards fat oxidation, even in the face of a relatively anabolic hormonal state.

But a fat but trained individual doesn't have both factors going no. They may have plenty of fat to lose but they don't have a ton of muscle to gain. No newbie effect.

A semi-lean but muscular individual has to drop insulin to mobilize/burn fat for fuel at any effective rate. Which limits their anabolic potential (and this is ignoring all of the stuff going on in the muscle with AMPk and protien synthesis and all that crap). They can lose fat but they can't gain muscle at the same time.

And, in a muscle gaining mode, you're in a net anabolic state anyhow. You can't lose fat and gain muscle at the same time for the most part.

Now quit asking me about this.
 
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