3 Day Workout Bodybuilding for Bulk. Opinions?

immax01,

I am doing something similar but only 2x per week and BB + DB only as I have no access to machines. My workout lasts 40-45 mins. Each lift is done to positive failure or form deterioration (the rep after form deterioration risks injury).


It's working for me. In 9 months, +1 inch on arms, +1 inch on chest (despite reduction of 'he-boobies'). +.5 in on thighs (which were already pretty big from jogging, walking, and cycling while I was severely obese) WHILE BODYFAT% IS DECREASING.

You might want to Google 'Mike Mentzner'.
 
training to faliure is pointless

failure training systems like HIT. For strength training it's not necessary. In fact, I'd go so far as to say it's counterproductive.

So why go to failure? Let's say you're using a load of 70% of 1RM and the target muscles have a similar threshold for total MU recruitment and exhaustion. By reaching concentric failure, you've recruited and exhausted all FT MUs. However, beyond 80%, the load is great enough to do this to all muscles without reaching failure. Going to failure at this point is now like pushing the engine of your car to redline and not shifting gears. You're subjecting the CNS to unnecessary fatigue. You've recruited all fibers so what is your goal now? To try and further exhaust the CNS? Why?
I'll quote Zatsiorsky again: "...a trainee should “learn” to either decrease inhibitory output or enhance excitatory output from the central nervous system (CNS) while exercising and thereby gain strength. This learning is more successful if the trainee is fully recovered from the previous activity, not fatigued."

Going to failure induces greater fatigue. With heavier loads this is even more pronounced and not only interferes with rest times between sets but can have a cumulative effect that affects workout scheduling (consider many HIT trainees who train once a week). So why do it if you're using a load that recruits and exhausts all FT motor units without going to failure? What does it achieve other than induce unnecessary fatigue? The facts are all there.
 
buzz said:
training to faliure is pointless

failure training systems like HIT. For strength training it's not necessary. In fact, I'd go so far as to say it's counterproductive.

So why go to failure? Let's say you're using a load of 70% of 1RM and the target muscles have a similar threshold for total MU recruitment and exhaustion. By reaching concentric failure, you've recruited and exhausted all FT MUs. However, beyond 80%, the load is great enough to do this to all muscles without reaching failure. Going to failure at this point is now like pushing the engine of your car to redline and not shifting gears. You're subjecting the CNS to unnecessary fatigue. You've recruited all fibers so what is your goal now? To try and further exhaust the CNS? Why?
I'll quote Zatsiorsky again: "...a trainee should “learn” to inhibitory output or enhance excitatory output from the central nervous system (CNS) while exercising and thereby gain seither decrease trength. This learning is more successful if the trainee is fully recovered from the previous activity, not fatigued."

Going to failure induces greater fatigue. With heavier loads this is even more pronounced and not only interferes with rest times between sets but can have a cumulative effect that affects workout scheduling (consider many HIT trainees who train once a week). So why do it if you're using a load that recruits and exhausts all FT motor units without going to failure? What does it achieve other than induce unnecessary fatigue? The facts are all there.
Click to expand...

So what type of training methods will "inhibitory output or enhance excitatory output from the central nervous system" (I think you are missing a word thee before inhibitory) if that is what is needed to build strength?

You're subjecting the CNS to unnecessary fatigue. You've recruited all fibers so what is your goal now? To try and further exhaust the CNS?
Click to expand...

So what you are saying, is that if you perform a regular set at an appropriate load, you've recruited all muscular fibers? Or just the most muscular fibers you could recruit with that particular type of training method?
 
So what you are saying, is that if you perform a regular set at an appropriate load, you've recruited all muscular fibers?

correct
 
DIFFERENTIAL EFFECTS OF STRENGTH TRAINING LEADING TO FAILURE VERSUS NOT TO FAILURE ON HORMONAL RESPONSES, STRENGTH AND MUSCLE POWER GAINS.

J Appl Physiol. 2006 Jan 12;

Izquierdo M, Ibanez J, Gonzalez-Badillo JJ, Hakkinen K, Ratamess NA,
Kraemer WJ, French DN, Eslava J, Altadill A, Asiain X, Gorostiaga EM.

The purpose of this study was to examine the efficacy of 11 weeks of
resistance training to failure vs. non-failure, followed by an
identical 5- week peaking period of maximal strength and power
training for both groups as well as to examine the underlying
physiological changes in basal circulating anabolic/catabolic
hormones.

Forty-two physically-active men were matched and then randomly
assigned to either a training to failure (RF; n=14), non-failure
(NRF; n=15) or control groups (C;n=13). Muscular and power testing
and blood draws to determine basal hormonal concentrations were
conducted before the initiation of training (T0), after 6 wk of
training (T1), after 11 wk of training (T2), and after 16 wk of
training (T3). Both RF and NRF resulted in similar gains in 1RM bench
press (23% and 23%) and parallel squat (22% and 23%), muscle power
output of the arm (27% and 28%) and leg extensor muscles (26% and
29%) and maximal number of repetitions performed during parallel
squat (66% and 69%). RF group experienced larger gains in the maximal
number of repetitions performed during the bench press The peaking
phase (T2 to T3) followed after NRF resulted in larger gains in
muscle power output of the lower extremities, whereas after RF
resulted in larger gains in the maximal number of repetitions
performed during the bench press.

Strength training leading to RF resulted in reductions in resting
concentrations of IGF-1 and elevations in IGFBP-3, whereas NRF
resulted in reduced resting cortisol concentrations and an elevation
in resting serum total testosterone concentration. This investigation
demonstrated a potential beneficial stimulus of NRF for improving
strength and power, especially during the subsequent peaking training
period, whereas performing sets to failure resulted in greater gains
in local muscular endurance. Elevation in IGFBP-3 following
resistance training may have been compensatory to accommodate the
reduction in IGF-1 in order to preserve IGF availability.
 
Thanks for the abstract buzz.....

Here's my question:

Is this data dependent upon the trainee using a training weight which would allow them to fail at the prescribed number of reps? For example, if they are doing a set of 5 reps, to maximize the training results, they need to train with a weight where they will reach failure at NO MORE than 5 reps?

Also, if training to failure to does not recruit any more fibers, what about other training methods such as drop sets or eccentric movements (negative reps)? Is there any further fiber recruitment from these types of training?
 
MAXX said:
Thanks for the abstract buzz.....

Here's my question:

Is this data dependent upon the trainee using a training weight which would allow them to fail at the prescribed number of reps? For example, if they are doing a set of 5 reps, to maximize the training results, they need to train with a weight where they will reach failure at NO MORE than 5 reps?

Also, if training to failure to does not recruit any more fibers, what about other training methods such as drop sets or eccentric movements (negative reps)? Is there any further fiber recruitment from these types of training?
Click to expand...

yes if you were doing 5reps then pick a weight that you could do 5 reps with good form,if you know you wouldnt get another rep without help then dont do it.
there is nothing wrong with going to faliure occasionally (every 2wks say) just to help increase your rep-max etc,but build up to it otherwise you will burn out your CNS.
BTW i class faliure as not being able to do another rep with good form,not complete muscle faliure.
i doubt drop sets would recruit any more fibres because you are using less weight,but they will flush the muscle with lactic-acid which will help the muscles and tendons recover so they are good.
negs might recruit more because you are using something like your 2 rep max.
basicly by stoping just short of faliure you are recruiting enough fibres for strength and hypertrophy,saving your CNS,and making your training more enjoyable ,so why do more than you need to.:cool: :D
 
MAXX said:
thanks for your input buzz.
Click to expand...

welcome:cool: :D
 
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