My Multiple Joint Pains. How Can I Train Around Them?

C

ClintBX

0
Hi all,

I'm going through a hard time with my fitness routine at the moment. Normally, I'm very active and train nearly everyday. I practice several styles of martial arts (on a rostered basis), I also cycle a lot to get around and have been incorporating more strength training exercises at the end of my training.

Where things have started to give me trouble is when I've been accumulating multiple joint pains in the past year and a half. I just had my shoulder checked a month ago and learnt that I have a torn supraspinatus. It had been giving me pain since September and meanwhile, the inside of my left ankle was starting to hurt a little in the morning. Now, both ankles hurt a little randomly throughout my day.

I'm keen to recover both my ankles and my torn rotator cuff but it's hard staying off all of them at the same time while still getting a good exercise routine. I've been doing leg training, kicks and sweeps but when I do, my ankles flare up. I'm really concerned that I might do damage to those tendons while staying off the shoulder.

Does anyone have any advice on how I should approach this? Is there some upper body exercises I can do with a torn supra or should I not risk it until its fully healed?

Thanks in advance,

Clinton
 
Slow controlled movements that your shoulder can handle without pain or warning. Basic Kata would be good in many cases.
I found that doing little often was the best way for me but it is worth checking if this is safe for you. Last time I dislocated my shoulder, day before a job interview, which I got, I did basic movements every hour or two depending on if I could still feel affect from previous hour. No weight and only a few simple movements but it helped my recovery.
I have a long history of ignoring injuries and have only started treating them properly in the last 5 or so years. The difference in recovery times has been an eye opener, I am older so naturally recover slower but have been back in action quicker. Patience pays, not to the point of inactivity unless physio or similar has told you otherwise but dull easy stuff.

Other damage may be compensatory, be careful of that. It is largely unavoidable but don't let it go to far.
 
Thanks CrazyOldMan. I might just brush up on my poomseis.

I have no idea how I'm going to heal my ankles though. I cycle for transport (don't have a license or a car) and there's a bit of walking involved. Even if I ceased my leg training, they're still being aggregated.
 
Another thing that's been bothering me the most is my mood about this. I'm getting really anxious for so many reasons. On top of the ankles and shoulder pains, I've had thumb pain show up out of the blue and since that started a couple of months ago, I've been an emotional wreck. I struggle to sleep, I can't focus on anything and my restrictions around training is getting to me. I also get triggered over every little thing I think is pain. I think I've become afraid of the pains I would normally associate with exercise. Like doms. And I fear my body is breaking apart. I try to reassure myself that its all just soft tissue damage and it will heal up but this episode has me fearing the worst.

Just thought I'd express the emotional side because this is the part that makes it hell. I want to feel like myself again and be able to hold the right perspective on this.

I appreciate any support on this.
 
Ankle pain through cycling, suggests you are not using the pedals well. I have cycled as my main transport most of my life and this is the first job ever where I have driven to commute. That has been distances between 4.5 to 14 miles and will not be an issue.
If practical get some SPD, Look or similar pedals and shoes. The can be pricey if you go for the competition level, I never have, but they will force you into correct position and prevent damage. Also check your saddle height and seat position, remember 90 degrees or straighter is best for leg joint safety.
I wouldn't suggest stopping leg training, building strength into the body is a good way to avoid damage, and the only thing that keeps me mobile. Make sure you are really focused on alignment though, knees following the line of feet etc. If you aren't doing this turn your feet to where your knees go, rather than forcing your knees to move in a way they aren't set for.

Some major clues in your last post as to what is going on and it is one of the delightful chains where cause and effect are incresingly the same. You are stressed and not sleeping, therefore damaging your nearvous system and body with stress without sleeping to let them recover, this in turn is making you more stressed and sleep less, you get the idea. Sleep is good, and totally irreplacable for nervous recovery, it is very easy to say get more of it especially as I can nearly always sleep really well but I do know it's not that easy. The key is usually distraction, trying to empty your mind just lets stress march to the front so have something that will occupy your mind and let you drift happily off to sleep, be it music, a film, a computer game etc.
Focus etc. when you're tired and stressed will not happen, simple inescapable, unpopular fact. You will have to deal with this one.

As far as body breaking apart goes, that is usually a sign of overtraining, though with you it could be the stress and lack of sleep. Recovery and food are most important when it comes to preventing this sort of feeling, take a good look at your diet, how balanced it is or isn't, even look at alcohol intake. Remember removal of toxins uses up valuable trace minerals and vitamins, so the late night tipple or riding through city streets will need to be considered.
I have literally broken my body in a variety of interesting and painful ways, training is how I keep the darned thing working. It can be done, but in all honesty I would say you will have to deal with the mind first and body second, and I wish I could describe this as easier or good news.
 
The thing with ankles, I suspect that its due to wearing MBT shoes. I noticed that the inside of the left shoe wore down more than the right and was pulling my feet into a flat footed position. And cycling with those shoes, I suspect was a terrible idea. That being said, it could be from the years of kicking (from taekwondo and capoeira) or it could also be from the pistol leg squats I was doing at the time.

The thing with my stress, anxiety and sleeplessness is mainly a symptom rather than a cause but it doesn't help. I don't usually need distraction to get to sleep but in this case, I'll see what I can put in place. I don't have trouble going to sleep most times (sometimes) but I wake up an hour or 2 earlier with these thoughts and anxieties. I try my best to just lie in to the time I usually wake up.

I like that you said that training is what keeps your body running after several breakings. I've been acting like I'm made of glass. I really loath that attitude. It's not usually who I am. Can you tell me what injuries you've been through and your age if you don't mind sharing? I think it would help me tremendously to know of some fit senior individuals that's been through worse than I have (or similar)
 
Age 39, not long til 40
Injuries are numerous, I will list a few of the highlights and some more recent.
Younger man doing dangerous sports thinking recovery and ignorance where the same thing.
Dislocation of shoulders probably around 4 times on the right, maybe a few more, 2 or 3 on the left. Serious enough that my left shoulder sits normally and my right is around half inch below normal and will never go back to where it was. Only really notice this occasionally, doesn't help my bench presss though.
dislocation of finger joints don't know how often, but I got used to putting them back in while hanging onto a rock face. Probably only 2 or 3 times for any one joint at most and only half to 2/3 will have been wrenched, none at the knuckles. Long term affects many of my fingers are not fully straight, and I feel the potential for arthritis in the background frequently. Hands still work fine.
Hips were both dislocated severely, one out to the side the other out to the rear, I saw the x-rays they weren't pretty. This was at a time when I had to make an instant decision damage back or legs I went for legs and made a good job of it. they do hurt quite often, most mornings and occasionally through the day. Squat movement at the top is affected but once they settle I can do the rest fine.
Knees quite a bit of tendon and ligament damage over time and have popped them at least once on the left and a few times on the right.
Ankles are like concrete and have never failed me despite everything I have done.
Toes are double jointed on all but big toe in final joint and I was a climber. Good way to get arthritis, put excessive pressure on loose ligament joints. Right toes are so arthritic that some of the joints barely move and one toe has bones fused at 90 degrees on first joint and the end joint will now only bend the wrong way.
Muscle, tendon, and ligament damage to numerous to recount. I didn't think I would survive long so acted like every day was my last, basically like a grade one a hole. Live like there may be no tomorrow but remember there probably will be.
A lot of this damage went largely ignored apart from basic stretching and mobility and being sworn at when it limited my ability. The result of this is I have to get out of bed carefully and mobilise myself before doing anything dramatic. If I get up and don't do this, if my son needs me etc. I suffer the rest of the day. Don't do that, it's stupid you will regret it.

Older slightly less stupid man.
Hips occasionally slide a little especially the right one so I will have to use a hip support for a while until my body starts holding this in place again. Not really an injury as such but it happens.
Two most recent injuries that have required more than minor consideration. Both were caused by arrogance, me wanting to do more than I could, but I will never change and accept this as the price I pay.
Dislocation of right shoulder nearly 4 years ago. Identified when it slotted back into place and woke me up. Over-qualified under intelligent doctors in minor injuries unit couldn't identify this, because it's hard to detect under a muscular shoulder. What they would be able to do with someone seriously built I don't know, likely diagnose a viral infection. Only reason I knew was I remembered the feeling of it going back in from my past.
Damage to lower back. Month and a half ago, currently recovering from it by using moderation in weights and some mobility work. My body is more forgiving than I deserve and within a few weeks I have gone from barely able to move or walk to only having to moderate lifting.
Recovery now is taken a lot more seriously. I hate moderation and have no patience but I force myself to get it right. Not so much made of glass but aware that not made of titanium.
I always push to my limits and by constantly trying to extend that will occasionally go beyond them. I would rather do that and damage myself every few years than never improve. Of course being smarter and more moderate is good too.

Pistol squats are good for strengthening the tissue around the ankles if they are under control. If you are wobbling around doing them normally and add jumps you are going to cause damage. Footwear is key, I refuse point blank to pay good money for elaborate t-shirts, etc. but always get the best shoes, usually discounted, I fit is so well in Yorkshire. So you will see me running in a vest that cost me a fiver or less, shorts that cost likewise and shoes that should have been almost 3 figures but I paid around half that for. Looking a mess is normal, but the shoes work and so do I.
 
Thanks for sharing.

How do you deal with the idea that so many things are accumulating and getting more painful with age?
 
I train harder. Part of my motivation is that I will wake up hurting anyway, might as well be from something I did the day before as from years ago.
Keeping mobile and maintaining a high metabolism and recovery rate by training helps keep the day when all the damage I have caused means I cannot move anymore further away.
The fact I do all of this means it is likely still getting more painful year on year but so slowly I genuinely don't notice. This is not tough guy boasting just stating fact. I hurt every day, but I don't remember exactly how it felt last year or even five years ago so to me it is the same as it has been for at least five years.

There is always a price to pay for every mistake. Sometimes it's short term pain, minor damage that you recover from in short order. Other times it can last a lifetime and the best you can do is minimise the impact. When that happens you have two ways to view it one is to appeal for sympathy because of the pain you suffer, the other is to accept it was your own stupid fault and crrack on with life. The world is full of both types I will always be in the second and even though I know there will likely be a time when I can't do this anymore, I will push it back until then.
 
I like your answer. I normally think like that about that sense that the things that accumulate are gradual. Kinda how I feel about my wrist, neck and right knee. I'm just especially freaked about the speed at which some things have been showing up in the last year.

Maybe, I'm making it out to be more in my head then it really is. Though it started with back pain (that I addressed by changing my cycling posture) and my right knee (which was already a mild niggle but became more because I wanted to master some flips), the ankles, shoulder and thumbs are just incidental stuff.

The fear that's somehow crept into my mind is that I'm heading to place where one day I'll be in chronic pain and crippled. I get that pain as we get older in inevitable but I'm comforted by your notion that it'll be too gradual to notice. As long as I can somehow believe that I'll still be fit and active in my senior years.
 
Whether you are still fit and active in your senior years will be completely up to you. I have always managed to do something, not as much as I would often like but something. One place I worked 57 hours a week and was detirmined to still be dad and husband as much as possible so training was mostly walking to and from work or playing with my son for over a year, but keeping moving meant I was able to transfer from that to cycling 10.5 miles each way for the next job and start some weight training again.
Being active is important, but there will be other priorities getting in the way on occasions. Be prepared for this and flexible regarding timing, and you will be fine.
 
This may seem a little off the wall, but you may want to take a look at your diet in all of this (mental and physical concerns). I'll be 50 in a few months and have been active all of my life so I have oodles of those pesky built up injuries too - the ones that make a body a little bit careful getting out of bed... Given that I am determined to keep playing and pushing to do what I want to, I found I had to start paying a lot more attention to what I was putting into my body. That creaky, 'something new hurts every week' feeling does mess with your brain and you can get on a terrible downward spiral.

A number of foods, particularly processed foods, have a very inflammatory effect in the body. Foods that turn quickly to sugar are especially bad because of the insulin response they trigger. Insulin is a critical hormone, great for building up the body in the right amounts, but too much is inflammatory and just contributes to aches and pains as well as internal damage.

Do a quick google search for anti-imflammatory diet or most inflammatory foods and see how what you commonly eat looks against either the recommended diets or the worst foods - then try making some adjustments. It will probbly take a couple of weeks at minimum to detect results.
 
I have a fairly high in anti-inflammatory diet with plenty of dark leafy greens, capsicum (lots of fruit and veg in general), I'm a green tea lover, avocado, nuts, seeds but I notice that I do have a few weak spots. Like cheese and bread. What about coffee and cocoa? Are those pro-inflammatory? I do a fair bit of both.

I just got back my results about my ankles and thumbs and I'm assured that they're mildly inflamed and with proper treatment should go down in as little as a couple of weeks. Then I got prescribed Ibuprofen. I'm usually reluctant to take medication but I've been looking up on whether anti-inflammatories actually help heal or just deals with the pain. There's some conflicting information about whether inflammation should dealt with or accepted as part of the body's healing mechanism. Also, I'm concerned about effects of taking anti-inflammatories. I've read that it can actually do damage to tendons.
 
Seeds, being high in omega 6 fatty acids, are on the inflammatory side - sort of. The typical wester diet has a bad ratio of omega 3 to omega 6 fatty acids. Ideally, the ratio would be 1:1, maybe going to 1:4, typical western diet is more like 1:16.

Grains (a form of seed if you think about it) are a major source of omega 6's so yes, bread is inflammatory.
Aged cheese is not as inflammatory as a lot of dairy, but there isn't much good in processed cheeses.
Coffee as a 'whole food' has some value, but if highly adulterated (mine is unrecogizable and therefore not healthy but I love it!) it counts against you.
Cocoa - depends on the processing. Dark chocolate has anti-inflammatory properties, but depending upon the sugar content and the chocolate flavinoids left in the cocoa, it might be good or bad - hard to say.

Sometimes to take an anti-inflammatory allows the body time to respond. Chronic use does systemic harm, but short-term should be OK. Be sure to stay well hydrated! Many of the horror stories one reads about ibuprofen has to do with endurance athletes who do kidney damage by taking ibuprofen when dehydrated.
 
Hypothetically, is it possible to substitute the use of NSAID with anti-inflammatory foods? For example, instead of the 400 mg ibuprofen 3x a day, ginger tea throughout the day or garlic supplements. Or something like that?
 
Sorry, Vitamin I is slang for ibuprofen.
You could try a fairly intensive round of natural supplements, but it would be hard to match the power of the drug. However, longer term, if you can find a natural regime that helps you feel better, it can only be good, and is certainly more sustainable to the body.

I don't recall if you said how old you were, but a sad reality is that more and more body parts will hurt as time goes on. You can work around it, and you figure out what keeps your body feeling its best. This mean testing out some different ways of eating, noting how you feel as you eat that way over a period of time (note: this is a slow process!) and then keeping or discarding that scheme.

For example, based on some reading I did, I tried wheat elimination. It was hard to change my diet like that so it took a while to get over the deprivation, find substitutes for the missing carbs, and then determine if I felt better or not. It took a couple of months, and a round of going back to eating wheat to determine that my body and brain did better, felt better, hurt less without wheat in my diet.
 
An illumination diet. Yeah, I've heard and read a lot about those. I keep hearing that night shades are a possible source of inflammation.

I think I'll start the conventional approach as soon as I get my ankle supports and just go on a course of ibuprofen.

How long does a torn rotator cuff typically take to heal? I'm getting conflicting info. My torn supra is 3x5mm and I was told 6 weeks but I keep reading and hearing anything from several months to several years.
 
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